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New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

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Post Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:21 am

Re: New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

On behalf of the CK 3D modeler who made the
Kaiser I say thank you for your nice comments.


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asheshouse

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Post Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:26 am

Re: New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

For this sort of application I think models like the Kaiser need a lot more of the fine detail to be included.
It would look much better if railings were included and more detail were put into the rigging.
Many of the details seem to be approximated rather than accurately modelled, but I'm not an expert on the Kaiser.

The model would be improved with some basic shadow casting, but maybe that is something outside of the modellers control?

I appreciate that modellers will do what they most prefer but would not the sim be better served with some representatives of the Flanders flotilla, Dover Patrol and barrage patrol craft, all of which would add useful scenery to the coastal part of the western front.

Ashe
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Post Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:56 am

Re: New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

We have a 40.000 ploy limit on game vehicles as we want people
With middle of the road PCs to be able to run CK as well with good FPS,
Sure we could make 150.000 ploy models plus and every one could get a
New monster PC to run it and get 20 FPS at best, but that's not what we
Want to do.
And the sim has self shadowing and not something that is made in 3D
Like the old days...


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asheshouse

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Post Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:55 pm

Re: New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

Well, I would think 15000 to 20000 poly would be fine for the sort of detail I was talking about, not 40000.
For Flanders Flotilla destroyers and TB's 5000 to 10000 poly should be fine.

Interesting that the game engine will handle 40k poly models with no problems though. That should allow for a lot of detail to be incorporated.

Is there a reason that the in-game screen images shown did not have self shadowing activated?

Ashe
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Post Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:06 pm

Re: New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

Yes I forgot to turn them on in settings when I took the photos but the
Shading is on as you can see on the railing in photo 3 from the top.

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Post Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

asheshouse wrote:Well, I would think 15000 to 20000 poly would be fine for the sort of detail I was talking about, not 40000.
For Flanders Flotilla destroyers and TB's 5000 to 10000 poly should be fine.
Interesting that the game engine will handle 40k poly models with no problems though. That should allow for a lot of detail to be incorporated.
Ashe


Not when your talking inner's like wheel house and turrets 15 to 20000 ploys
Is not any way near enough and it was talked about putting on full railings and
That would had made the ship way over the ploy limit we set.
What you see there is just under the 40.000 limit we have.

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asheshouse

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Post Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:12 pm

Re: New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

Deutschmark wrote:Yes I forgot to turn them on in settings when I took the photos but the
Shading is on as you can see on the railing in photo 3 from the top.
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I see what you mean. Some pillars have shadows, but other objects like the compass binnacle and the main turrets and numerous other parts, are not casting shadows. Are shadows coded separately for various model parts?

Not when your talking inner's like wheel house and turrets 15 to 20000 ploys
Is not any way near enough and it was talked about putting on full railings and
That would had made the ship way over the ploy limit we set.
What you see there is just under the 40.000 limit we have.


Are you able to freely roam around the ship, so the whole ship model still needs to be present, even when you are just in the wheel house. If the wheelhouse was modelled as a discrete location, like an aircraft cockpit, wouldn't most of the model be omitted when in wheelhouse mode?

Even if you can roam freely presumably the lower part of the hull is out of view and could be omitted?
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Post Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:32 pm

Re: New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

Lets take a plane, the cockpit and outside plane is all one in this sim
What you see from outside is what you see on the inside, so now when
You are talking this ship you have a wheel house and 5 turrets that all are
Modeled inside and then the rest of the ship, now knowing that take a look
At the ship again and you will see that what was done was fine with the limit
We have as it all came in at just under 40,000 ploys.

But that is not the limitation of the sim, that is one we set so people would not
Need a monster PC to run CK and get 20 FPS at best.

Take a look here, this is a Bismarck model its over one million ploys big it ran
In VSF sim the game graphics engine being used for CK but it only got high
Teens FPS at best but the game graphics engine did render it just fine.

Image

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Python

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Post Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:41 pm

Re: New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

Salute

I like how folks like to nit pik others work I for one think he did a great job on this ship. I don't see why folks have to try and run others work down. If I wanted to play a game that has models that have such high poly count and I had to spend a fortune on a new pc just to run it like in some of the other new games that are just coming out then I would go there but I am waiting on this game that has nice models and is playable on the PC I have.


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asheshouse

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Post Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:17 pm

Re: New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

Python: -- I thought I was making constructive comment, not nit picking as you call it. My own PC is not high spec by any definition so my concerns about playability are the same as yours. I was interested in Deutschmarks comments. Its a shame that its not considered possible to put more external detail into the ship models without compromising usability. Its always good to see the visual quality bar being raised in new sims. Anyway, good luck with your project.

Ashe
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Python

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Post Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:25 pm

Re: New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

Salute

Ash I have a middle of the line pc and most games run on my system except for the newest ones. When folks look at a model that goes into the game you have to remember that if you have say two ships maybe a plane or two and surrounding sceanery say a village or city in the background near the ships using a real high poly count model will cause the FPS to drop to were it would be very unplayble . I myself want to have the nice sceanery good models and is very playable game. I have looked at how other games are made taking a look at the poly count of the models you have to keep things low as for poly count or you limit the number of people playing take a look at the latest game that came out they have models that are real well detailed but you can only imagine how high the poly count is as if look at the videos the fps are very low. you have to balance sceanery, models detail and playablity.

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Post Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:30 pm

Re: New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

Hi all :wink:

When I play games I turn scenery down, trees down, grass off, shadows off, Planes Detail Ultra / Unit Detail Ultra, clouds / sky = High

Why?

I play games for the gameplay aspect not the Graphical aspect, yes the better it looks is nice, but its the gameplay I care about, admittedly if the game looks bad I will turn the graphics up as my PC can handle it.

So gameplay factor is a must for all games in my opinion.

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Post Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:21 pm

Re: New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

asheshouse wrote:Python: -----------
I was interested in Deutschmarks comments. Its a shame that its not considered possible to put more external detail into the ship models without compromising usability. Its always good to see the visual quality bar being raised in new sims. Anyway, good luck with your project.
Ashe


Well Ash, we don't want to end up with a cluster-f**k like you are seeing with
New games coming out these days, where BIG PCs are getting 20 FPS at
Best and when you get in the thick of things then it becomes a slid show
That is not something we want to happen when we put out CK and if that
Means our models will be just a little less detailed to prevent that then so be it.

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asheshouse

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Post Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:14 am

Re: New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

I'm not sure criticising a major flight sim like CoD does you any favours.
Concentrate on your own strengths not others weaknesses.

CoD is trying to set new graphic standards for a Combat Flight Sim.
Maybe they still have some bugs to iron out but I hope they are successful with it.
After all, its still not released in Europe -- officially.

CK is not really competing at the same graphic level, is it?

Ashe
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Post Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:41 am

Re: New CK WW1 SMS Kaiser.

asheshouse wrote:I'm not sure criticising a major flight sim like CoD does you any favours.
Concentrate on your own strengths not others weaknesses.
CoD is trying to set new graphic standards for a Combat Flight Sim.
Maybe they still have some bugs to iron out but I hope they are successful with it.
After all, its still not released in Europe -- officially.
CK is not really competing at the same graphic level, is it?
Ashe


No we are not and that is by our own chose so that we will not end up
With a sim that you need a BIG PC to run it and get 20 FPS at best
BUT if we wanted to we could go to that graphic level as this new boat
That was just made for VSF by a 3D artiest I know from VSF shows.
Click on the photos to enlarge.

Image
Image
Image

But then we be in the same systems heavy cluster-f**k as they are now...
NO Thanks!

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