Flawed Flying Models - Printable Version
+- All-Aircraft-Simulations (https://allaircraftsimulations.com)
+-- Forum: IL2 MODS Download & Discussion (https://allaircraftsimulations.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=267)
+--- Forum: IL-2 4.09m (https://allaircraftsimulations.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=348)
+---- Forum: IL2 MODS Discussion Section 4.09m (https://allaircraftsimulations.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=292)
+---- Thread: Flawed Flying Models (/showthread.php?tid=52217)
+- All-Aircraft-Simulations (https://allaircraftsimulations.com)
+-- Forum: IL2 MODS Download & Discussion (https://allaircraftsimulations.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=267)
+--- Forum: IL-2 4.09m (https://allaircraftsimulations.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=348)
+---- Forum: IL2 MODS Discussion Section 4.09m (https://allaircraftsimulations.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=292)
+---- Thread: Flawed Flying Models (/showthread.php?tid=52217)
Flawed Flying Models - FANATIC MODDER - 24.01.2008
RAF_Magpie Wrote:...a lot of the FM's are already deeply flawed.
Any suggestions? Which models do you think are flawed?
- DioMac - 24.01.2008
Yours.
You is P0rked.....Be shure
Re: Flawed Flying Models - RAF_Magpie - 24.01.2008
FANATIC MODDER Wrote:RAF_Magpie Wrote:...a lot of the FM's are already deeply flawed.
Any suggestions? Which models do you think are flawed?
P-51-D... TBF/Avenger series... Fw-190... to name a few.
- RealDarko - 24.01.2008
The F6 Hellcat without a doubt
- No1_Charlie - 24.01.2008
All Spitfire marks' stall characteristics are a joke!!! Where's the famous judder/stall warning that all pilots talked of?
IMHO Battle of Britain/Wings of Victory II have the flight model off to a tee based on pilots reports-and the stall warning is great!
Rant over
Re: Flawed Flying Models - GentleKiller - 24.01.2008
RAF_Magpie Wrote:FANATIC MODDER Wrote:RAF_Magpie Wrote:...a lot of the FM's are already deeply flawed.
Any suggestions? Which models do you think are flawed?
P-51-D... TBF/Avenger series... Fw-190... to name a few.
whats wrong with fw190? and which serie are you talking about?
- VT-51_Razor - 24.01.2008
The TBF/TBM for sure, as well as the Kate and Jill (B5N & B6N) The TBF is at least flyable. You can trim most of the nastiness out of her, but the two IJN attack planes don't even have any trim controls!! If this group ever decides to do something with the FMs of some of these planes that they have brought to life, those three ought to be at the top of the list. At the very least, you might be able to turn the two IJN planes into decent flyers by just adding trim controls in all three axes.
Re: Flawed Flying Models - Skunkmeister - 24.01.2008
RAF_Magpie Wrote:FANATIC MODDER Wrote:RAF_Magpie Wrote:...a lot of the FM's are already deeply flawed.
Any suggestions? Which models do you think are flawed?
P-51-D... TBF/Avenger series... Fw-190... to name a few.
Apart from the wings shedding in flight during high-G manoeuvers, whats wrong with the P-51D?
- High Plains Drifter - 24.01.2008
charlie19 Wrote:All Spitfire marks' stall characteristics are a joke!!! Where's the famous judder/stall warning that all pilots talked of?
IMHO Battle of Britain/Wings of Victory II have the flight model off to a tee based on pilots reports-and the stall warning is great!
Rant over
Yup! 8)
There are so many flawed or semi-flawed Fm's in Il-2 i don't know where to start with a rant of my own.
- Lo0n - 24.01.2008
it can't kill tigers with it's .50's
- GerritJ9 - 24.01.2008
Buffalo/F2A-2. In IL2 Buffalo Mk.I uses same FM as B-239 which is a joke- they were totally different animals. The Buffalo was faster, but much heavier and had a lower rate of climb and was not as manoeuverable. The figures for the B-239 are, for the most part, almost spot-on, although the fuel load of 300 litres according to the 4.05 FM is too low- all Buffalo variants, with the exception of the F2A-3, had two 300 litre tanks making a total of 600 litres, or 160 US/132 Imp gals.
IRL, the F2A-2 was much faster than it is in IL2.
- Lo0n - 24.01.2008
High Plains Drifter Wrote:have you tried using forcefeed back joysticks? not got one myself but i think that would cover the judder and stall warning of "that wing"charlie19 Wrote:All Spitfire marks' stall characteristics are a joke!!! Where's the famous judder/stall warning that all pilots talked of?
IMHO Battle of Britain/Wings of Victory II have the flight model off to a tee based on pilots reports-and the stall warning is great!
Rant over
Yup! 8)
There are so many flawed or semi-flawed Fm's in Il-2 i don't know where to start with a rant of my own.
and flawed or semi flawed in whose opinion. lots of testing has been done by the ubi chartmonkeys, and it's been found that the overall majority of fm's are in the right ball park. some are optimisitic, some are pessimistic, but none are horrendously wrong that i am aware of. the ai planes appear to have had a simplified model, or just lack some features like trim n that, but even the wing snap on the mustangs is something that did happen to some of them prior to strengthening spars in the problem area (think it was something to do with the landing gear?)
- High Plains Drifter - 24.01.2008
Lo0n Wrote:High Plains Drifter Wrote:have you tried using forcefeed back joysticks? not got one myself but i think that would cover the judder and stall warning of "that wing"charlie19 Wrote:All Spitfire marks' stall characteristics are a joke!!! Where's the famous judder/stall warning that all pilots talked of?
IMHO Battle of Britain/Wings of Victory II have the flight model off to a tee based on pilots reports-and the stall warning is great!
Rant over
Yup! 8)
There are so many flawed or semi-flawed Fm's in Il-2 i don't know where to start with a rant of my own.
and flawed or semi flawed in whose opinion. lots of testing has been done by the ubi chartmonkeys, and it's been found that the overall majority of fm's are in the right ball park. some are optimisitic, some are pessimistic, but none are horrendously wrong that i am aware of. the ai planes appear to have had a simplified model, or just lack some features like trim n that, but even the wing snap on the mustangs is something that did happen to some of them prior to strengthening spars in the problem area (think it was something to do with the landing gear?)
Yup have a FF pro I use all the time with Il-2 and it works well. 8)
My crazy opinions are from historical refrences I have read about how many aircraft handled in real life. When i get many similiar opinions about the fm's of a certain aircraft I consider that a pretty good indicator that they are generally right or in the ball park. I have no idea where Oleg got his ideas about fm's but i believe he could have done a tad better that's for sure. :wink:
I am a picky cuse don't you know.
- High Plains Drifter - 24.01.2008
What I find the most troubling is Oleg's acceleration curves for certain aircraft. This is only my opinion don't you know. :?
- Lo0n - 24.01.2008
generally i think he got the info from test pilot reports, military test facilities, technical reports, that kinda thing. there are some accounts where they divert from what we see, but then those can be put down to subjective interpretations by pilots in their reminiscences. there are some things, like the high speed elevator lock up in p-38's, that has been shown to be a bit out, but things like pilots saying they easily out turned spitfires in a 109 were down to being an ace, who evidently survived the war to write his books, fighting a novice who didn't fly his plane to it's limits. teh tech data would give a lto different results compared to the accounts of survivors and experts who would be able to wring out performance better than a novice. the he162 tested by eric brown (this is from a recfent post at ubi) had a factory limit of 750kph, and brown took it to 800+ quite happily without snappin the wings off or frying the engine. certainly how the sim handles high speed is odd, ditto high altitude, but then thats a limitation of an old sim originally designed as a study in a single type - the il2 series.
i only ask after the ffb as i don't have it, but imagine it should be somethng that is tied into stalls or would give some indication? from what i recall the effect in spits was a gentle thrubbing as stall approached, something felt in the seat, and the controls would go a bit sloppy but it was mainly the structural noise that warned pilots. quite gently if i'm remembering correctly
for more info on say lockheed, focke wulf and hawker aircraft, look for cwos, they hace sections for each with a load of tech data.