Bae Hawk/Red Arrows? - Printable Version

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+---- Thread: Bae Hawk/Red Arrows? (/showthread.php?tid=65878)

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Bae Hawk/Red Arrows? - David603 - 22.10.2009

Okay, I was looking at the new F-86 and MiG-15 mods, and I realised the Bae Hawk jet trainer used by the RAF Red Arrows display team has a fairly similar flight envelope, IE sub-Mach 1 top speed and no thrust vectoring or other features that might be beyond the scope of the Il2 engine in its current form. So, it seems possible to me at least that this plane could be made and introduced to this game, the only new feature that would need to be made would be the HUD, and since this is not a system used for air-to-air or air-to-ground combat, it could possibly be faked using a large partially clear, partially coloured texture of the kind used for gunsights, but linked to the pitch/roll indicator.

If anyone is interested then this does seem to be the kind of project that while it wouldn't really add anything to the WWII flightsim part of Il2, it would be a very interesting and different kind of aircraft to model, and one that a lot of people would enjoy.

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- HH_Cipher - 22.10.2009

Yes it would be nice to have modern Jets. The Red Arrows are also my favorite display team.

But Ill say no to this. This is a WWII simulator. If you want a BAE Hawk, buy Lock On and down load the Red Arrows mod.

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- Guest - 22.10.2009

I know some of the purists will shoot you down but, if it adds to the interest and still works within the currrent limitations of the game engine, I can't see what difference it would make to introduce what is effectively just another visual mod into the game. Remember there is a lot of work involved in creating a new aircraft..........

Or am I being a heretic here ?


(Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition......)




GJE52

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- European Snake - 22.10.2009

GJE52 Wrote:I know some of the purists will shoot you down but, if it adds to the interest and still works within the currrent limitations of the game engine, I can't see what difference it would make to introduce what is effectively just another visual mod into the game. Remember there is a lot of work involved in creating a new aircraft..........

Or am I being a heretic here ?


(Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition......)




GJE52

Well, I think it would add interest if we managed to put some large modern commercial jets, and I would love to see it. I'd love to see what an Airbus A380 looks like getting hit by a flak shell or torn up by fighters!

I can't make an argument against diversification. All my friends complain that they'd like to fly IL2 but they want more up to date planes. Nothing too much, but maybe flying a C-5 or something un armed. If I were a modder, I'd give this a go.

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- Trooper117 - 22.10.2009

Can we just get all the much needed WWII aircraft still missing from the game first???
if half of you lot had your way, then we would have diverted the majority of all of our mod team to make shed loads of what ifs, never flown, experimental, modern day aircraft instead of what the sim is mainly about..
There are perfectly good sims out there that have many of the modern aircraft that you desire, modelled to a high degree already... just a thought.

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- Bombsaway - 22.10.2009

I understand and respect both points of view on this but as far as the what if planes, I dont always see the the problem. The HE-IIIB2 lerch was a "what if" plane that never really did much if anything at all. Yet Oleg put it in IL2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_Lerche

This plane was much like the American "Flying flapjak". It was built but never really "took off" pardon the pun I always try to remember that I, like the rest of the IL2 global community, am a grown man who, everyday, "pretends" to get in an airplane and shoot down the "pretend enemy"

I can uderstand how those against the what ifs want to keep IL2 as a WWII sim yet, there are Korean jets in here now and soon there will be a WWI set of mods to go in here as well. Which I enjoy them all. I also understand that the modders are working very hard on the "real" planes of WWII first and with that I agree. My only dissapointment is the way some of those against the what ifs tend to respond to those who are for it.
I dont think anyone has written a complaint to Oleg about him including the Lerche.
This post is NOT directed towards anyone in paticular. I just see alot of guys who ask a question and sometimes get a somewhat harsh response.
I would like to see a few what if planes myself. Such as the Flying Flapjack but I know there are other planes that should be in line first.

My two cents.

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- European Snake - 22.10.2009

Trooper117 Wrote:Can we just get all the much needed WWII aircraft still missing from the game first???

I know, I need to stop getting so far ahead of myself. Bring on the P-47N!

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- RichardH - 22.10.2009

Trooper117 Wrote:Can we just get all the much needed WWII aircraft still missing from the game first???
if half of you lot had your way, then we would have diverted the majority of all of our mod team to make shed loads of what ifs, never flown, experimental, modern day aircraft instead of what the sim is mainly about..
There are perfectly good sims out there that have many of the modern aircraft that you desire, modelled to a high degree already... just a thought.

Amen brother, Amen!!

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- Trooper117 - 22.10.2009

My point is the number of requests that keep coming in for obscure or modern aircraft.. yes, it would be great to get everything that ever flew into the game, but the reality is that there are just a few guys modding away, working hard on CK plus Korean stuff, let alone the likes of the UI and other utilities for the game.
If they get diverted into other avenues it will take forever to get the much needed types for WWII..
Again, yes I'm a strictly and passionate WWII fanatic and this is only my viewpoint on modding priorities, and I know that the 'what if' crowd are just as passionate about their hobby, but many of the modern types are already available in decent games elsewhere, lets not clutter up IL2 with them is all I'm saying.. plus the game engine limitations will stop many of the modern jets from having accurate fm anyway..

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- Radoye - 22.10.2009

Bombsaway Wrote:The HE-IIIB2 lerch was a "what if" plane that never really did much if anything at all. Yet Oleg put it in IL2.

So, if Oleg did one stupid thing there means we all should follow suit?

What if Oleg jumps off a cliff, should we follow that too?

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Re: Bae Hawk/Red Arrows? - F22-Raptor-2006 - 22.10.2009

David603 Wrote:Okay, I was looking at the new F-86 and MiG-15 mods, and I realised the Bae Hawk jet trainer used by the RAF Red Arrows display team has a fairly similar flight envelope, IE sub-Mach 1 top speed and no thrust vectoring or other features that might be beyond the scope of the Il2 engine in its current form. So, it seems possible to me at least that this plane could be made and introduced to this game, the only new feature that would need to be made would be the HUD, and since this is not a system used for air-to-air or air-to-ground combat, it could possibly be faked using a large partially clear, partially coloured texture of the kind used for gunsights, but linked to the pitch/roll indicator.

If anyone is interested then this does seem to be the kind of project that while it wouldn't really add anything to the WWII flightsim part of Il2, it would be a very interesting and different kind of aircraft to model, and one that a lot of people would enjoy.

Yeah putting in a hawk in = no I don't think it's quite right. Gets to mach 1.2 and the red arrows ones also have modified engines that are uprated. Also they are combat ready planes that can be used if there was an emergency. Yeah I know you could just put a Empty loadout only but also the time and dedication it takes to get one plane from scratch into il2 finished product is so much that a modder would much rather pick a more relevant to IL-2 game plane. Also the Hawk's avionic systems are way above what you have in IL2, after all it is an advanced jet trainer.

Since the possibility of the Hawk being in this game is very unlikely you could always take an F-86 and use it instead of the Hawk. Perhaps an F-86F would be more accurate FM wise to the Hawk but the F-86A-5 does look similar to the Hawk and can get over mach 1 in game which would equal around about what the Hawk does with the exception that the engine may be less responsive than a real life hawk.

Anyway if you do want a Red Arrows F-86 I have done skins for them already and can be found on this thread along with other skins:

viewtopic.php?t=14372

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- Bombsaway - 22.10.2009

Radoy, Why so hostile? This is a prime example of the type of responses I was talking about.

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- Radoye - 22.10.2009

No hostility mate, it's all cool

But the argument stands: if Oleg did a stupid thing introducing the Lerche, does it mean we now have to focus on that single example and add more fantasy-waffe paper planes or should we keep the game what it really is, a historical simulator primarily focused on WWII era?

Should we start adding stuff that is out of the scope and context of the game just because we can or should the integrity of the game be preserved at all costs?

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- norm - 22.10.2009

GJE52[/quote]

Well, I think it would add interest if we managed to put some large modern commercial jets, and I would love to see it. I'd love to see what an Airbus A380 looks like getting hit by a flak shell or torn up by fighters!

I can't make an argument against diversification. All my friends complain that they'd like to fly IL2 but they want more up to date planes. Nothing too much, but maybe flying a C-5 or something un armed. If I were a modder, I'd give this a go.[/quote]
reminde me never to go on a trip with you

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- Bombsaway - 22.10.2009

Well, I just think that when a guy askes about a plane and gets a harsh response, its uncalled for. I'm sure most who ask about planes understand that no modder is going drop everything and jump on his request. Yet, thats what the responder seems to think. As far as how "far" should things go, honestly its a WWII sim but we now have korean war jets and maps.Thats not WWII. Soon there will be WWI in as well, thats not WWII. My point is some of these respones are rude and those giving them claim they want to keep IL2 a WWII sim :???: As far as planes go, hisrorical first, what if second. Unless a modder decides he would like to do it and jumps on it.
I love ALL aspects of IL2 and how far it could go. The KTO, WWI, and WWII. The work that the modders do is amazing and I thank them for it. There was talk of drivable tanks, I want one. I just dont think its right to give rude resonses to people who were just asking a simple question. Not only does it show a lack of integrity but a lack of maturity. If they want to give a response like that just let it go. As I said we all know that no modder is expected to drop everything to take up a request.

Anyway, We're way off topic and should probably return.

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