Map building tutorial - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: Map building tutorial (/showthread.php?tid=60954)

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- agracier - 14.04.2010

Newy Wrote:have a problem with my rivers.
the map I'm working on is very mountainous and i need my rivers to start above sea level then come down.
Is this possible?

This is certainly possible. First off when making a DEM and using the elevation tables, especially for the gray elevation table, do not use the 'lake check' option. Or rather, make 2 dems, one with and one without 'lake check' option turned on.

Then with the gray DEM without the lake check, you should make a multi-layered file to work on. This should ideally be your map_C.

Create a new layer and on that layer you should manually draw in rivers in RGB 0, at least 3 pixels wide, though of course near river mouths, these can become very wide.

This hand editing can take some time to accomplish, especially if the terrain contains intricate rivers and run-offs and what not. Just be certain to create the rivers and lakes and any other type of inland water on a separate layer, as afterwards it will save time and effort.

When that is all done, you can then create a map_h, by importing the downsized river layer into a multi-layered file for map_h, then by merging the layers and doing what is described in the tutorial. But don't forget to turn off the river layer of RGB 0 when merging. Otherwise you will end up getting the grand canyons of all Grand Canyons since RGB 0 corresponds to sea level. Try out the map and see how the rivers look.

In mountainous terrain they will probably creep up along mountain sides and show pyramid like forms ... to correct this you can for instance go back to the multi-layered file with the river layer. Select all the rivers on their own layer and expand the selection by at least 1, 2 or 3 pixels, then keeping this selection active, go to the background layer, the gray dem, and then either soften or blur the selection a few times. You can soften or blur by hand if you wish, but generally a blanket command works just as well.

By doing this, you'll be eliminating much of the sharply elevated terrain around river borders into more gentle slopes. Canyons will become less steep as a result and less dramatic looking, but the upside is that the river course will be more or less level and not show any more pyramids along the slopes.

Then you merge layers and create a new map_h (again not forgetting to turn off the river layer RGB 0)... and of course take a look and see how it looks in-map.

Bear in mind that this works fairly well, but in terrain that descends very swiftly, there will always be some deformation of rivers. For instance if you approach a river from down-valley and it drops very swiftly, you will probably always be able to see 'under' it in some way or another. Especially if you are flying low.

Viewing from a higher altitude gives much better views ...

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- Newy - 14.04.2010

Thanks for the reply agracier,(I love your maps by the way).

So to make it clear, I use the Gray DEM without the 'Lake Check' for the basis of my map_c.

I then use the Grey DEM with the 'Lake check for the basis of my map_h


Newy

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- agracier - 15.04.2010

Newy Wrote:So to make it clear, I use the Gray DEM without the 'Lake Check' for the basis of my map_c.
I then use the Grey DEM with the 'Lake check for the basis of my map_h

No no ... to make a map_h, you should best use the gray DEM WITHOUT LAKE CHECK .... the lake check puts a blue color on the dem where large bodies of inland water are present: lakes, wide rivers, but when the blue is turned into a gray RGB value, it won't give a correct height.

Instead it will 'push' all those all blue areas to sea level height or at any rate to a same height level all over the map area. In lowland areas that's not too bad, but once the terrain becomes much higher, say at 100-200m, you'll start to see really deep river canyons, where in reality you'd have a relatively flat level plain with a river flowing at almost the same height ... in mountainous areas of 1000m and so, you get real doozies of canyons.

And to make map_c, you should ideally start with Lake Check on. It's also easiest to create a new layer for rivers and lakes. On that new layer, move/import the blue areas and then (with lots of patience) you'll need to draw by hand the rest of your inland river/lake system, taking care to very carefully follow the natural contours as discerned on the gray DEM with lake Check.

See, if you make a separate for rivers and lakes on the gray DEM, you can later use this level when making map_t and you wish for instance to create water without surf for rivers (RGB 30). It will save lots of time and effort later.

I know it can be confusing at first. It took me a month to get a first very simple map working, But once you get the knack, you'll find it's rather straightforward.

_____________

And here's a perhaps silly sounding tip, but it helps even so. See if you can, print out a copy of Kevins' Tutorial and get it bound up somewhere at a local photocopy shop or wherever. Then you can more easily consult the pages than by alt-tabbing between applications ... and you can add notes in the margins as well ...

And it will impress your friends and family too ... ha ha.

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- Newy - 15.04.2010

Thanks again for your help, now I understand what you meant.

I think I found a work around for my map to hide some of the river effects in the mountains. Lucky for me a lot of googling images of the area in question has revealed that most of the rivers in the mountains become covered by the jungle canopy. By making the rivers as described and then in the mountains covering them with jungle just a good result and covers most of my problems as well , good old New Guinea.

My map (the Milne Bay end of New Guinea) is going to start as a squadron only map whilst in it's early beta stage, with plans for a possible release to the public.

I've been happy with how most of the map is going, just didn't like the way the rivers where turning out in the mountains.

WTE Newy

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- Yorktown - 21.04.2010

Non-genious needs help!

Day Three and third time through the tutorial:

Ok I get to the point where I need to align the coast of map_c.tga and map_h.tga. I have downloaded the Coast Alignment tool and launch and load map_c.tga and I get an error message that map_c.tga is an IL2 formatted map_c file!.

This is the third time through and I get the same error every time so I must be doing something wrong. Any ideas? getting very frustrated.

Eager to get this right as I have many more maps to do!

Edit: I just noticed that the .tga gets dropped off the file, even if I add it by renaming the file. It is in TGA format according to the properties.

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- agracier - 21.04.2010

Yorktown Wrote:Ok I get to the point where I need to align the coast of map_c.tga and map_h.tga. I have downloaded the Coast Alignment tool and launch and load map_c.tga and I get an error message that map_c.tga is an IL2 formatted map_c file!.
.

Are you sure that you have used the file that is called 'my_mapC.tga' ? That is often used interchangeably in discussions with map_c.tga, but if you were to open both files in a graphics editor you'd see the difference right away. My_MapC is basically a b/w image with blurred edges, while map_c is the same image, but broken up into little parts that can only be unraveled by the map_C.tga.maptable.

Whatever though. Just be sure you load MY_MAPC.TGA in the coast align utility, and NOT map_C.tga ...

I've never encountered that error message yet, but I suspect that since the error message says 'Il-2 formatted ...' it means you've loaded map_C after it's gone through the map_c toolbox utility.

Try aligning the coast with the raw, My_mapC.tga ... the b/m image that you get by reducing the gray.bmp DEM image ... be sure it is in graymode, no RLE compression on and has the correct proportion, namely the largest size of the 3 different map sizes.

And by the way, if you're only at day 3, then you are going very fast for a first map. It took me around 3 weeks to get a first map made and probably some 3 dozen tries or so ... don't give up ...

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- Yorktown - 22.04.2010

Many thanks agracier. YOU sir are a lifesaver. You were exactly right . . . I was using the wrong map_c. Note to self: READ EVERY INSTRUCTION VERY CAREFULLY EVEN WHEN YOU THINK YOU ARE GETTING THE IDEA HOW THIS WORKS! ASSUME NOTHING.

Again, many thanks kevinp and adracier!.


UPDATE: I have completed my first map, a map of Nauru in the Central Pacific [0.5S, 167E] , one of the sources of phosphates for the Japanese. US Carriers raided the island several times during the war. It was a vital asset in the production of gunpowder. I have a lot to do yet to make it presentable but it works and has been tested online! I will be working on it and Baker Island, Ulithi, Yap and Minami Tori Shima [Marcus] in the next few weeks and months.

Thanks for the wonderful tutorial and assistance.

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Re: Map building tutorial - HH_Blaze - 13.06.2010

I have searched and I have Googled, no luck. I'm working on a map, and I put in some roads and wanted to add some bridges, but can't figure out how to place the bridges correctly. I also tried one on a river that is at a higher elevation than sea level and it squashed a big crater in my map, lol. I have the tutorials for map building and textures, but neither one explains how to add bridges, am I missing something?

And thanks to kevinp for your work, Manam was a great learning experience.

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Re: Map building tutorial - agracier - 13.06.2010

HH_Blaze Wrote:I have searched and I have Googled, no luck. I'm working on a map, and I put in some roads and wanted to add some bridges, but can't figure out how to place the bridges correctly. I also tried one on a river that is at a higher elevation than sea level and it squashed a big crater in my map, lol. I have the tutorials for map building and textures, but neither one explains how to add bridges, am I missing something?

Bridges are a big pain to make in the game. I never generate rivers since it does mess up things to no end. And since most rivers are above 0 meters sea level, there is hardly ever getting them correct when you try to generate them.

So a roundabout way is to use dlv's bridge OBJECTS mod. These are objects, placed like objects, but which look like bridges. They don't have bridge properties such as allowing trains to cross rivers on them, or vehicles to cross over them, but at least they look like bridges, which is something ...

http://www.mediafire.com/?2ygmjotwn2i

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Placing bridges - kevinp - 14.06.2010

On page 7 of my tutorial there is a very brief description of how to move bridges. First you need to check the Display Filter to make sure "show bridge" is selected. I think all bridges sit at sea level & the only way round this is to do what agracier suggests.

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Highest number of bridges in unlocked FMB ? - Uzin - 14.06.2010

As anybody knows, I am working on the map of East Balt, aka East Prussia.
http://forum.aviaskins.com/showthread.p ... #post57034
There is a lot of rivers and roads, so the amount of necessary bridges is pretty above 200. When populating these bridges manually, I reached above 100, and the unlocked FMB (by Kevinp) refused to load the map anymore, simply goes down when trying the map. Other maps work well, fortunately partial backup saves something.
Does anybody meet the phenomenon ? Is there limit of the number of bridges in unlocked FMB ?

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More bridges - kevinp - 14.06.2010

Are you using the modified il2fb.exe. This allows the game to use much more memory so you can load maps like the Gulf of Finland which has over 700 bridges.

Download it from SAS
http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,2475.0.html

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Re: Map building tutorial - Uzin - 14.06.2010

Many thanks, Kevin.
Obviously you are right - now I can open , in your unlocked FMB - even map of Smolensk, Lviv and similar ones, which were not possible to open in original version of unlocked FMB coming with yours Manam tutorial for beginners.
Now I am starting from 36 bridges upwards .

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Re: Map building tutorial - stoupa - 07.07.2010

Hi, I need help.
My rivers looks bad.
What i must do for better result?. THX

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Bad rivers - kevinp - 07.07.2010

Please send me your map with the bad rivers. Include all the map files for that particular map & I will try & find out what is wrong.

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