Eluding dive attack and scissoring

Eluding dive attack and scissoring - Printable Version

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- P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole - 25.06.2009

RichardH Wrote:
P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole Wrote:It's an interesting idea, although if your opponent isn't obliging in doing exactly what your tactics stipulate he does then it probably wouldn't work. I can't say i've circled above somoene to line up my perfect pass, i'm too much of an opportunist to grab what I can get (which seems to work well enough).

Does it work with women as well? :lol:

Oh, incidentally, to further answer your question... (see my bold)!

- BillSwagger - 25.06.2009

nzwilliam Wrote:Doesn't hurt to have this manouver up your sleave, more devious tricks=longer life hopefully. I do something similar occasionally when jumped, but it certainly ain't recomended when your adversery has a wingman coming in right behind. 1st guy won't even bother trying to make the turn causing a loss in energy, he'll go zooming past and regain alt, wingman has the time to correct his flightpath to compensate...boom - you're toast.

A wingman is an added threat, that really wasn't the focus of this maneuver.
However, i should mention if above 4000M+ the threat of a wingman is much less than say dealing 2v1 at 2000M, simply because there are more outs and room to create separation.

If both planes are on the same side of you, it is really still one entity in the sense that the threat is only coming from one direction. If the wing is on one side of you, and the attacker on the opposite side, then you are in trouble, because one side is left open while you are forced to engage one or the other.

nzwilliam Wrote:The great open/closed cockpit debate has been going since the very beginning, the fact is, effective open cockpit manouvers ARE very different from those effective in a closed cockpit. Screwing up an enemy's shot in open cockpit involves out performing your opponent's aircraft's abilities, reflexes and skill to prevent him getting a bead on you long enough to put a round into you and if you can - reverse the situation. In a closed cockpit you need to do all of the above plus A) you can't necessarily see him, and definitly won't see him throughout the whole defensive manouver and B) you can use tactics to ensure he looses sight of you long enough to change direction and catch him off balance (quick nose down, roll and scissors often does the trick). That said, you'll still be in trouble if he has a wingman and you don't.

I agree.

Can you fly a P-47 against a P-51 on a full switch server??
How often do i see an Me-262 floating around for me to shoot at in an F4U, on a full switch server??

Outside of difficulty, it becomes a bigger question of variety, for me.
I suppose its always an excuse to lay into someone after they've beaten you, but i think its in poor taste. Full switch has its added challenge but its really not that much harder for me.
If you take what you learn on open pit servers and apply the same flight skills to the stricter view settings then you'll find that your plane still needs to be doing many of the same things. ie.. positioning for advantage, building/closing separation through turns, energy maintenance, wingmen...etc.

I certainly recommend learning on open pit servers, just to get a feel for the planes and flight tactics involved. Full switch tactics are slightly different in the sense you have blind spots that will work for and against you. Other than that, most of what you learn on an open pit server is the same.

Also, i noitce i die less, probably because i don't have a stupid arrow announcing to the entire enemy side where i'm at. Idea

- {HVY-E}Jinxx - 25.06.2009

Guys,

There are so many factors in this kind of fight, it's impossible to say to someone "do this and you'll kill him". I was there when you did this manuver. The first P47 you got hits on was {HVY-E}Nails. He's just getting familar with the P47 and hasn't mastered it yet. The second P47 that came after you was me. The one you couldn't shake, hit or evade. The only thing that saved you at all was all the stuttering/surging your plane continued to do everytime I got a firing solution on you.

Your tactics will work against most new pilots or pilots unfamilar with their plane. They most likely will not work against a seasoned pilot that knows the limits of his plane and, as was your misfortune, knows your plane's limitations.

As was stated earlier, an FW-190 will almost certainly hammer you. They can out dive you, and in certain instances out turn you. A GOOD 190 driver isn't going to turn with you. He's going to out roll you and cut you to ribbons. Roll rate beats turn rate EVERY TIME. I know, you're all scratching your heads now, but every good pilot knows what I'm talking about.

Simply put, instead of trying to turn with you, your enemy is going to watch you for a second, roll his plane to a 90deg offset of yours and pull his nose into your plane of travel and let loose a quick snap shot that, if successful, will at the very least, severely damage your plane.

- BillSwagger - 25.06.2009

Still it was an honor to fly against you, and i wont gloat too much, but neither of you had a chance even with out lag. Infact, I experienced the same lag on two passes if i recall. There was one close call, that i snap rolled and went the opposite way but you couldnt roll fast enough and follow in time.
i have this puppy recorded, if you'd like i can send you a copy.

As for the Folke Wolfe theory, i'm certain he can turn well but the maneuver would most certainly cause him to black out if he tried to turn inside to have the angle to shoot.

I can also attest that its worked with the Folke Wolfe, especially with the 1C.

It might not dive as fast, but dont discount its speed in level flight. (il2 compare is off by far here)

I cant sit here and argue move for move, or map out a game plane like you might in a football game.

Piloting is lot of on the fly, kind of crap, so having this maneuver in mind has proven to be successful for me.

Would i do it under 2000M.........the answers No.

- Guest - 25.06.2009

{HVY-E}Jinxx Wrote:Roll rate beats turn rate EVERY TIME.

...true...

BillSwagger Wrote:Would i do it under 2000M.........the answers No.

...I have used similar manouver in 190,on the deck,when at high speed...enemy blacked out and crashed...about zooming P47's,negative G manouvers are useful Wink

...

- Guest - 26.06.2009

P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole Wrote:
philip.ed Wrote:
P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole Wrote:
RichardH Wrote:Does it work with women as well? :lol:

hahaha, tell you what, if you wanting dating tips, i suggest you ask phillip.ed, i hear he's a bit of a player, if y'know what i mean, eh? Say n'more, say no more, a nod's as good as a wink, as they say!

Which one told you that Mog? :wink: It's hard to remember so many names... 8)

:lol:

I have it on good authority from HM the Queen. She likes to keep up with the latest gos'.

Ah the queen...that was a nice night :wink:

- P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole - 26.06.2009

Too far, phillip.ed, too far... She's in her 80's f'goddsakes!

- Guest - 27.06.2009

P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole Wrote:Too far, phillip.ed, too far... She's in her 80's f'goddsakes!

So is my mother! Although, that's what my sister-in law said. She'll never forgive me! Big Grin

I wonder where I got that line from... :wink:

LOL, only kidding (you hope)

- P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole - 27.06.2009

Okaaaay...

- Guest - 27.06.2009

P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole Wrote:Okaaaay...

Watch PoC when Moggy is talking to flip in the bar when they get back to England. You'll se where I'm coming from...(why does everything I say seem to revolve around sex? Even the words I write do...)