F-86 Sabre and Mig 15 The anticipation is killing me... :) - Printable Version
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+---- Thread: F-86 Sabre and Mig 15 The anticipation is killing me... :) (/showthread.php?tid=64075)
- Guest - 13.08.2009
I heard that they'll be included in UI 1.3. UI 1.2 is being worked on right now, so be patient.
- duffys tavern - 13.08.2009
Yea, thought we might have them soon but now looks like it's gonna be quite a while.
- norm - 13.08.2009
P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole Wrote:norm Wrote:Мне нужна МиГ
[ranting] the but ugly MiG 3 is no joy, and i can tolrate the mig 9 untill this comes out, but i wont stay with no lousy franken plain. [/ranting]
Please try to temper comments like that. Ranwers went to the effort of creating a frankenplane of the mig 15. At least you can fly it right now, even if a propper one from peterD is forthcoming. It seems rather ungreatful to refer to it as a "lousy frankenplane" when you could do no better, and the alternative is no Mig15 at all. Try showing a bit of gratitude towards what the modders are trying to achieve please. If you make any such other comments in this kind, I shall simply removed them.
sory, i should have said in the original post that i get completly irrational when i am ranting, so anything said during said irrational ness/ ranting in completly un-ment and impulsive.
Re: F-86 Sabre and Mig 15 The anticipation is killing me... - Russ_Ace - 13.08.2009
JG14_Jagr Wrote:I'm like an 8 year old on Christmas eve and I admit that openly.. reading through the various threads on the subject of release dates I came up with the following..
-PeterD is waiting for the next version of the Aircraft Installer to release his Mig/Sabre for open testing.
-The guys working on the next Aircraft installer are waiting for the release of UI 1.2 to finalize and release their work.
-If the UI 1.2 guys say they are waiting for PeterD's Mig15 and F86 to be released first I am going to have a breakdown
Sorry, just bored silly at the moment
omg confusing. i would have AI 1st then mig 15 and new saber then UI1.2, i cant waight for the Korean aircraft!!!
- kind boy - 13.08.2009
somebody said that sabre took better armament than mig-15... lol/noob
- JG14_Jagr - 13.08.2009
As for the claims, "overclaiming" is not something that is particular to any one airforce. The Osprey series book on Mig15's in Korea is written by Russinas using Russian data and while they claim overclaiming by the US pilots they also show massive overclaiming by the Soviets. The Russians used guncam as a means of determining kills.. Their guncam basically stinks and stopped the instant the trigger was released.. Once under analysis, if the setup for the shot looked good the analysts would grant a kill based on what they thought would happen if the video had continued. They stated a case where a Mig pilot brought down a Sabre but was granted 4 kills by the analysis of his guncam.
As for the planes relative merits, the Mig does NOT outturn the Sabre at all altitudes. The Mig 15 has an absolute climbing advantage at ALL altitudes however.. its a HUGE advantage and it stayed throughout the war. They also had a ceiling advantage that decreased as more modern Sabres arrived. In a dive, the Mig had an advantage in instantaneous advantage but it was quickly overtaken but the Sabre's in sustained dives. The Sabre also had the speed advantage in a dive with the flying tail and better control surface response. The guns are a mixed bag.. the Mig had slower rate slower volume cannons which could kill with a single hit if it hit the right spot. The Sabres guns gave it a high volume high velocity weapon which increased the hit probability enormously..but often a quick snap shot was enough to damage but not kill a Mig that was visibly hit.
As with the BoB, the combat took place very close to the Mig15's bases while the Sabres had to travel to find them.. another advantage for Mig's getting home damaged..
The pilots vary greatly.. we now know that Russians, East Germans, and other Warsaw Pact pilots and squadrons rotated through Korean/China while others acted as trainers. There were many very experienced pilots on both sides there at one point and then over time there was a progression where less experienced US pilots were rotated in while more experienced aces were rotated out.
The one thing no one seems to mention is that the Mig15's enjoyed a MASSIVE numerical advantage in combat..
It will be interesting...
As for the release, the final product will likely be in 1.3 but PeterD indicated he wanted to release them as beta once the FM's were included in the AC installer. Then test them and finalize things for the next UI 1.X Its been a while since he's mentioned it so things may have changed but that was the idea a few weeks ago when I thought we'd have both by now
- P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole - 13.08.2009
norm Wrote:sory, i should have said in the original post that i get completly irrational when i am ranting, so anything said during said irrational ness/ ranting in completly un-ment and impulsive.
Rightyo then, we all feel like that on occasion. Just try not to post it!
Cheers,
Mog
- Freiwillige - 13.08.2009
kind boy Wrote:somebody said that saber took better armament than mig-15... lol/noob
Its been stated many times by many different sources that the 6 .50 cal guns in the saber were more effective in fighter versus fighter combat than the MiG's armament which was more powerful but substantially slower firing and designed to attack bombers such as the B-29
The chance of a hitting your target in turning combat are far greater in the F-86.
Your a Noob when it comes to reading a history book!
- PeterD - 13.08.2009
my 2 cents on the aircrafts...
In my opinion the two are quite balanced, and I know this wasn't intentional, it just came out that way. The mig has a tremendous advantage in climb rate and accelerates faster, but there is no way you can catch a Sabre if it points its nose down.
Maneuverability/stability, IMHO there is almost a tie. The Mig is very maneuverable and at some speeds the roll rate is simply wicked, but you have to be know exactly where to stop pushing it or else you can be in trouble if it enters an uncontrollable spin. The Sabre has less trouble sustaining more Gs (without blacking out) or at least it seems that way, and it's very stable.
Armament, the Mig wins hands down in punch (OBVIOUSLY), however the Sabre feels almost like cheating when you use the K-14 sights and adjust the diamond ring for the correct distance.
The Mig's wingspan is pretty much the distance the ring is calibrated for, which means that as long as the ring diamater is the same as the mig wingspan and the aircraft is centered in the sights, you are pretty much going to hit.
It is a bit of a pain in the ass at very high speeds when you need to put a lot of lead into the target, mostly because the sight dissapears. It's easy to hit at 500+m using the sights and that's a huge advantage. The 50 cals pack a punch since it has a terrific rate of fire, but you can't beat 2x23mm cannons plus the 1x37mm cannon. The sabre is a more stable gun platform than the mig too. So which is better? I'd say the Mig. It's definitely harder to aim but anyone that has decent gunnery with a FW-190 will find it similar, only that it takes less rounds to explode enemy aircrafts.
Speed, the Sabre wins easily (specially in a dive... ), so that gives you the chance to exit combat at will as long as you have height and decent initial speed. On the other hand the mig can exit combat by climbing, and can choose when to fight if it has more height. There is no way you are going to catch a mig climbing with a sabre.
So both have their pro's and con's, you also have to keep in mind that the Sabre has more range (and a lot more with droptanks) but its heavier and its power/weight ratio isn't as good as the mig, so less acceleration, less climb, but it can go supersonic so higher top speed and in my opinion it's the better dogfighter of the 2. Both are equally frustrating if they aren't fighting in their 'natural grounds', that's for sure.
You'll see, you'll see
- Triad773 - 13.08.2009
Hey PeterD- thanks for chiming in
Looking forward to them both 8)
~S~
Triad
- JG14_Jagr - 13.08.2009
You could always release a Beta of both so we could see now PeterD
- PeterD - 14.08.2009
I will release them as open beta but they need a new aircraft installer
- Cpt_Biggles - 14.08.2009
so if PeterD is happy to release them as betas and the flight models are complete
then why the wait for a 1.2 or whatever. why not just release the updated buttons file that
includes their FM and rock on?
- PeterD - 14.08.2009
Because the updated buttons (next aircraft installer) is still being tested, and it's being tested because it's leaving behind the old system/method of maintaining 6 different buttons files (modactivador, all the soundmods, sfx_06 and unified installer) so that there is only one buttons file instead, and that takes some time because it needs to be "backwards compatible" and because the 6 buttons files were an incredible mess, so each aircraft needs to be tested for each soundmod to make sure they all work. After that, updating aircraft installer will be a walk in the park.
- RedChico - 14.08.2009
PeterD Wrote:Because the updated buttons (next aircraft installer) is still being tested, and it's being tested because it's leaving behind the old system/method of maintaining 6 different buttons files (modactivador, all the soundmods, sfx_06 and unified installer) so that there is only one buttons file instead, and that takes some time because it needs to be "backwards compatible" and because the 6 buttons files were an incredible mess, so each aircraft needs to be tested for each soundmod to make sure they all work. After that, updating aircraft installer will be a walk in the park.
Scrap all sound mods but one.