Multi-Throttle 4.0 (prop pitch, toe brakes, trim tweaking)

Multi-Throttle 4.0 (prop pitch, toe brakes, trim tweaking) - Printable Version

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- cerkaire - 21.01.2010

Quote:I have a working version 2.5 now. It supports prop pitch in dual throttle mode.
I also made another program yesterday, to control radiator through an axis/wheel. It also works flawlessly, impossible to desync. Also allows switching on and off the automatic mechanical mode (many airplanes have auto radiator mechanism) at any time for airplanes that have that.

Damm, I don't have enough wheel for this :lol:

- Frtbbbl - 21.01.2010

I tried the program today, but can't seem to sort it out. The engines keep starting and stopping, as though the throttle movement also toggles engines on/off. I'm using a CH quadron I recently bought. I was hoping to use seperate manual engine starts (not sure how I wold) but would be happy to just get the throttles to stop trying to do it for me.

Any idea what I need to check in my setup? I'm a little cross-eyed at this point.

Just the same, thank you for taking the time to make this. I've always prefered bombers to fighters. Anything that brings bombers more to life has me as an instant--if bumbling--fan Smile

- mikkowl - 22.01.2010

Frtbbbl Wrote:I tried the program today, but can't seem to sort it out. The engines keep starting and stopping, as though the throttle movement also toggles engines on/off. I'm using a CH quadron I recently bought. I was hoping to use seperate manual engine starts (not sure how I wold) but would be happy to just get the throttles to stop trying to do it for me.

Any idea what I need to check in my setup? I'm a little cross-eyed at this point.

Just the same, thank you for taking the time to make this. I've always prefered bombers to fighters. Anything that brings bombers more to life has me as an instant--if bumbling--fan

The program interacts purely by sending keystrokes into IL-2 at very high speed (when needed). The keys it chooses to send are listed, and configurable to whatever you want, in the "mikkonfig.ini" file that resides with the program. What is happening in your case is that it is sending the 'toggle engine' key in IL-2, and this means that you have not set your keys in IL-2 and the mikkonfig.ini to match. The instructions that came with it are pretty much mandatory to read Smile

But it is still basic. Just match the keys in the .ini file and in IL-2 (and also put in the correct throttle controller ID's in the .ini file), and the program will do the rest.

I'm glad you enjoy it! I'm sure you will enjoy it far more when you get everything set up. I made this program largely for myself, but as it worked so well I thought that others can make good use of it as well.

You have a CH Quadrant, with six levers and a bunch of two way switches? Hardcore. I'll definitely add more functions for you to make use of. If you could have anything you wanted as far as controlling engine stuff with your setup, what would it be? (being a bomber type pilot with 4 engines and all - I tend to focus towards making things work with dual throttles first for the twin engined planes, then expand it to the more complex 4 engined).

There's many obstacles and limitations that I am working around, but as I said, I got seperate engine start/stop, feather and prop pitch to work in my latest unreleased version. I custom made a specific switch behaviour that you might get use of on the CH Throttle as well (I have a saitek quadrant with 3 levers + 3 switches): pressing rocker switch up attempts to start engine. Pressing it down ALWAYS turns it off (so there's never any toggle confusion). It turns it off by moving the magnetos for that engine to 0 then back again, and to restart an engine in mid flight, one must first push the switch to the off position, and then to the on again and pray it starts. Pushing it down when already turned off feathers the engine, and pushing up unfeathers it, and another push and it tries to start it. Sounds complicated but isn't Wink

If you have any ideas of how things should work like, I am looking to steal them.

- walter_solito - 22.01.2010

I have a Saitek quadrant too!!

(I have time and skill only for test new IL2 mods in AI mode at the moment)

I have bought the Pro Flight Joke Sistem plus one Throttle Quadrant so I have 6 axis for twin engine so I really look forward for your next version!

Finally can be made all them working (2axis for throttle , 2axis for pitch) so I'm thinking what about the other two axis still free for mixture?

cheers

walter

- Fisneaky - 22.01.2010

:thumbsup: Added incentive to build a pit now :wink:

Not wanting to sound greedy but will it be possible to include multi prop pitch controls?

- mikkowl - 22.01.2010

Quote:I have a Saitek quadrant too!! (I have time and skill only for test new IL2 mods in AI mode at the moment). I have bought the Pro Flight Joke Sistem plus one Throttle Quadrant so I have 6 axis for twin engine so I really look forward for your next version! Finally can be made all them working (2axis for throttle , 2axis for pitch) so I'm thinking what about the other two axis still free for mixture?

If I were you, I would have two for engines, two for pitch, and the last two for radiator and flaps. Smile

Could use mixture as well, but that has not yet been implemented. Should not be that difficult to do though. Wow, the yoke system. That really is suitable for the Junkers 88, Heinkel 111, P-38, B-25 etc. I'm using a force feedback stick, so it looks and feels pretty different from those two hand controllers. Only the Bf 110 series seems to have twin engines and a single stick controller.

Quote:Added incentive to build a pit now Wink

Not wanting to sound greedy but will it be possible to include multi prop pitch controls?

Yes, it is possible. My current build as support for prop pitch for twin engined planes, but not yet four. It could also be possible to add fuel mixture and (the very unecessary) magnetos.

There are some limitations however that make me reluctant to try to implement fuel mixture and magnetos (even prop pitch has been difficult). IL-2 will always copy each setting from the last selected engine (engine 1 perhaps), to the new selected engine (engine 2). So each time someone moves a lever seperately on engine 2 when engine 1 was selected, IL-2 forces engine 2 to take on the settings of engine 1, and the program must counter it by sending ALL settings of engine 2 again (as fast as possible so they don't have time to change). I discovered that it is possible to switch to no engines, and still be able to implement a new throttle setting, before switching to a new engine (that way it won't make the lever move when it should not), but prop pitch, fuel mix and magnetos cannot be changed until after IL-2 has copied the previous engine setting. Drives me crazy. Even when done instantly, one can see the prop pitch lever on engine 2 move fast to try to reach the setting of engine 1's prop pitch lever, until quickly returning to where it is supposed to be.

And yet another irritating problem exists - if one changes to another engine before the last engine's prop pitch lever finishes moving into the position it was told to, it just stops dead in it's tracks before reaching it. I had to implement a timer that delays the part of the process that selects the new engine, until the prop pitch lever can finish moving into position. When moving engines one at a time, this is never noticed. It is also not noticed because there is no delay if the prop pitch levers are the same for both engines (no need for a delay then). But when trying to move the throttles together with wildy different prop pitch lever settings it is very noticable. They take turns moving, engine 1, engine 2, engine 1, engine 2, with a delay of 1/10th of a second to up to about a second at the most. But no one flies like that, and the levers all make it into their intended position, it just looks funny.

I think that since most people who handle prop pitch, or even four engine prop pitch settings, are not trying to move all engines together once they start changing settings individually much. It's more when engines are damaged, they change one engine individually, then leave it like that and mess with the other engines instead. Thus I think I will develop the prop pitch for all four engines, as well as the latest algorithm(?) for controlling the throttles (it is new and updated since the release of 2.0 here).

Fuel mix and magnetos - imagine what happens if you set fuel mix to 0 on an engine, or magnetos to 0, then move a lever on another engine. That's right, in copying the settings from the last engine to the new, the new engine will get fuel mix set to 0 and die on you, even if a millisecond later it recieved the proper fuel mixture command. I suppose I can implement it for a range that is not dangerous, say fuel mix 10% to 120%, but not 0%. That way you can still raise the mixture on an overheating damaged engine individually. Then changing back to the rest of the engines won't be so bad, they will just get a mix of say, 30%, for a fraction of a second, before going back to whatever they were set to. Not enough to make them fail or act strange. But engines always die if set to 0% at any moment.

Yeah, could be nice to fly planes that have fuel mix as well (twins especially, few people have enough levers to have throttle, prop pitch, fuel mix for four engines!). Pe-2 for example. Smile

- fabianfred - 23.01.2010

I am trying to get this to work... it doesn't select a single engine and keeps freezing as though the pause key is pressed.

I am using the HSFX..and think I need to disable the bomb bay doors mod...but how can i do that when it has been built in to the sfs files???

- mikkowl - 23.01.2010

fabianfred Wrote:I am trying to get this to work... it doesn't select a single engine and keeps freezing as though the pause key is pressed.

I am using the HSFX..and think I need to disable the bomb bay doors mod...but how can i do that when it has been built in to the sfs files???

Add this to your conf.ini in your IL-2 folder:

[Mods]
BombBayDoors=0
SideDoor=0
SideDoors=0
SeparateGearUpDown=0
SeparateHookUpDown=0
SeparateRadiatorOpenClose=0

Don't despair though, I managed to figure out how to get my programs to send stuff to IL-2 through devicelink (an interface that is mostly used for running instrument gauges and such things on seperate monitors for IL-2). Still a lot of work to be done, but it is more accurate, no keybind issues what so ever, etc. And I also managed to get control over my G940 throttle color LEDS. Horray! Smile

Now if I can somehow pull info from IL-2 from devicelink, and use that info to figure out how to manipulate the leds (it is quite complicated to say the least).

GREAT NEWS!!! - blomsky - 23.01.2010

Thanks a lot for this, mikkowl!!!

I used to use 'Throttle' by Gary Edwards which enabled independent throttle control for a small number of supported controllers. One of those was the Saitek AV8R Stick. Therefore I converted one of these into a throttle quadrant. So now I have 5 axes and 4 2-way-switches. Unfortunately 'Throttle' can not be used together with FreeTrack. IL-2 will not start when both progs are running. So I had to choose and I preferred to have better vision instead of separate engine control.
I assume that Your solution does not cause that kind of problem, right?

In a bomber vision might not be more important than separate engine control but I fly the 110 and so I would really love to have both additions.
Will download and try it out tomorrow.

cheers
blomsky

- mikkowl - 23.01.2010

I have not yet tried my TrackIR 5 with using devicelink at the same time. I'll try it today sometime and let you know how it goes. If TrackIr uses the same interface then there could be 'issues' if the interface is overloaded maybe. What were the symptoms of running 'throttle' with TiR before? Stuttering? Refusal to recognize either? This key-emulation version here works very well with twin engines (although only for the throttles) and I fly a similar version all the time lately with the 110 and the Ju 88.

I tried playing around more with devicelink yesterday and it was disappointing. It has the same problems and restrictions as using a keyboard press. I.e. it copies the settings from one engine to the other and all those things. I may still adapt the new version to make use of it because there's no need for a person to use keybind setups at all, and it frees the keyboard, and finally, it gives a little bit more accuracy (can move in 1% instead of 5% increments). Remains to be seen if it messes up headtracking or not.

- Frtbbbl - 23.01.2010

Thanks. For some reason, my FSX has not worked since I tried the IL2 quadrant software. Is there any chance the Program remains running unintentionally? In FSX, the aelerons are stuck right even though the yoke animates correctly. I've re-installed that game/accel pack without result.

Please don't read this as blaming this great little addition to IL2. I'm just a bit stumped. Once, the aerlerons unlocked while I was fooling with the quadrant toggles, but I can't repeat this.

Will try your corrections though. It worked well once in IL2 with HFSX diabled until I respawned (was hosting on-line dogfight just to test). Then it acted up in vanilla as well. I had not disabled the bombay door etc., so shame on me. Maybe that little mod stays in even with HFSX disabled (since it's in config?). On a positive note, it was very smooth and intuitive/immersive when it did work.

- mikkowl - 23.01.2010

This little program only sends keyboard presses, which is only meant to be recieved by IL-2 but will be sent into whatever window is currently centered on your computer. FSX issues sounds much like the program is still running and sending keypresses into FSX; which might make FSX do crazy things depending on what the keybinds are set to.

The first basic method to see if it is running when it should not, is to check the lower right task bar, next to the time/date. It is a little square green icon with a white "H" in the middle. Right click and disable if you see this. If it isn't there but you are still suspicious, open the task manager (ctrl-alt-del) you can check the lists of processes if it is running or not. It has the same name as it's file and should take about 3-6mb of ram to run, using next to nothing in ways of CPU. If found, select it and then click the 'end process' button. That way, it is absolutely not running nor affecting anything in any way.

Running HSFX (like I do, too) without turning off some some of the optional mod behaviour (bomb bay doors stuff) will cause strange behaviour. The bomb bay doors mod appropriates "power 20" 30 and 40 I think, as well as some others, and when our beloved multi throttle program tells the in-game throttle to move to 30%, it sends "power 30". Only the bomb bay doors mod makes it open some bomb bay doors or lower landing gear or something as such instead Wink

Thus you must edit the config.ini as mentioned in my previous post and have those values entered under the 'mods' section. If 'mods' don't already exist, copy in the [mods] part included in my example. Should clear it right up.

- ArcticViper - 24.01.2010

Moved to WIP-BETA-MODS Download section, because that's what it is, and like Fly_zo said, it deserves not to get lost in the mods discussion section.

Cheers
Arctic

Re: Released: Multi-Throttle Support for IL-2 - skele - 24.01.2010

mikkowl Wrote:This is not technically a MOD, but adds important functionality. It is a program I made to control up to four engines with any controller axis you have connected (you can use ANY axis on ANY controller).

It cleverly reads the axis positions, then figures out what keys need to be pressed on the keyboard to manipulate the in-game engines into the corresponding positions, trying to use the least amount of key presses possible. And it does this very well and instantly. The accuracy and range of motion is pretty good too, being able to read the throttles in 23 unique positions, from 0% to 120% in 5% increments. That's similar to binding an axis directly to an engine.

It started as a project to get my G940 dual throttle working, and it worked so well and I saw that nothing was stopping me from adapting it to work with any controller and as many engines and axises as we could want. I only bothered supporting up to four.. I doubt any of you have more axises that you want to use for six engined bombers anyway

http://hem.bredband.net/mikko.artist/Mu ... ikkOwl.rar

You can have up to four axises, one for each engine on a B-17 for example. Or you can use a dual throttle to control the engine pairs on the left and right side, makes it much more fun and intuitive to turn them while taxiing on the runway, and when flying.

More features coming in version 3 (this is version 2, version 1 had only support for G940). Individual buttons for turning each engine on and off, and feathering each engine propeller, as well as toggling magnetos individually for each engine.

Tackar

- Frtbbbl - 24.01.2010

Thanks. I thought I had checked to see if anything was running. Maybe I was careless there too Smile

But, if anyone else runs into this, I found the strangest solution (proboably a few more, but I'm just using this one). I'm talking my strange FSX bug here. Go into the stock DC3/C47, cycle the electrical MASTER switch, then go back to the plane you are trying to fly. The controls will now be free.