MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a - Printable Version
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+--- Thread: MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a (/showthread.php?tid=69630)
- ACE-OF-ACES - 11.04.2010
Thee_oddball Wrote:if the above information is correct it would be naive to think that if the race had continued that by the time the yak15 and mig 9 took there first flight that the 183 was also doing the sameWhoops!
I thought you were being sarcastic when you said the Ta183 would be operational!
My bad
I now see your serious!
That is the problem with sights like wiki and Luft46.com
Folks see a few fake blue prints and they think the plane was just moments away from flying
About the only thing the 183 did beyond a doodle on the back of a napkin was to make a wooden wind tunnel model
Which is light years away from a flyable test model let alone production model
All in all the Ta183 in it's current state in the game had about as much chance of flying as the Learch
NONE!
Thee_oddball of original author Wrote:The first flight of the aircraft was projected for May 1945Yes and I think Hitler also projected that he would invade England by the summer of 41 :lol:
- snowleopard - 11.04.2010
Oh, I forget one big point is speed to escape escort fighter as you bring it up. THANK YOU. Again, we have to remember that anything that are so new as first time always have shortcoming like first car build not perfect, first few steam engine iin ships are much dangerous as first attack submarine are much dangerous as it happen in our US civil war. Yes you right about shortage of right stuff for jet engine. For Engine catch fire easy, Luftwaffe won't put rookie pilot into jet yet prefer expert pilot and explain to them about engine catch fire easy. Most of us play this game aren't real pilots.! Oh I remember that I drive a real old car and I was told that if I step gas pedal too fast, it will stall and carburetors will flood with gas. So if you slam it to firewall in Me-262 then yeah it can be happen and catch fire. Please excuse my poor grammar because I am deaf. Thank you.
Glenn
P.S. Early man create fire always have many bad results in first many years ahead even first time electric at home have bad shortcoming, finally first nuclear...you know rest of this history.
- RedChico - 12.04.2010
ACE-OF-ACES Wrote:Thee_oddball Wrote:if the above information is correct it would be naive to think that if the race had continued that by the time the yak15 and mig 9 took there first flight that the 183 was also doing the sameWhoops!
I thought you were being sarcastic when you said the Ta183 would be operational!
My bad
I now see your serious!
That is the problem with sights like wiki and Luft46.com
Folks see a few fake blue prints and they think the plane was just moments away from flying
About the only thing the 183 did beyond a doodle on the back of a napkin was to make a wooden wind tunnel model
Which is light years away from a flyable test model let alone production model
All in all the Ta183 in it's current state in the game had about as much chance of flying as the Learch
NONE!
Thee_oddball of original author Wrote:The first flight of the aircraft was projected for May 1945Yes and I think Hitler also projected that he would invade England by the summer of 41 :lol:
Ah yes, here we go again. I see that you like to trash a perfectly good discussion.
So, facts:
- there was at least 1 complete prototype or 0 series if you wish.
- The americans brought 1 complete prototype (at least) on a carrier along with other "x-planes".
- They tested it and got to the same conclusion as the german engineers : structural problems with the rudder-elevator assembly.
So, yes (/sarcasm) paper napkin drawings, and wooden windtunnel models. With already 1 jet fighter under their belts? By the time the russians got their jet planes operational germany would already have at least 2 jet fighter models flying.
If and only if the american and british bombing would have been efective.
You say its fake blueprints, so why don't you show us the real ones, because there were blueprints and, at least, the american airforce got lots of them.
And finally, what Hitler has to do it this?
PS: and btw Oddbal did said this "the 262 is speed and guns not dog fighting" meanning interceptor, meanning speed factor is more important than manouverability. Although your post is older, i bet both of you were typing it at the same time.
- ACE-OF-ACES - 12.04.2010
RedChico Wrote:Ah yes, here we go again. I see that you like to trash a perfectly good discussion.So let me see if I understand you correctly
So, facts:
- there was at least 1 complete prototype or 0 series if you wish.
- The americans brought 1 complete prototype (at least) on a carrier along with other "x-planes".
- They tested it and got to the same conclusion as the german engineers : structural problems with the rudder-elevator assembly.
So, yes (/sarcasm) paper napkin drawings, and wooden windtunnel models. With already 1 jet fighter under their belts? By the time the russians got their jet planes operational germany would already have at least 2 jet fighter models flying.
If and only if the american and british bombing would have been efective.
You say its fake blueprints, so why don't you show us the real ones, because there were blueprints and, at least, the american airforce got lots of them.
And finally, what Hitler has to do it this?
PS: and btw Oddbal did said this "the 262 is speed and guns not dog fighting" meanning interceptor, meanning speed factor is more important than manouverability. Although your post is older, i bet both of you were typing it at the same time.
I point out the blue prints are fakes
As in none exist
And your reply is for me to produce the 'real' blue prints that don't exist?
ROTFL
- RedChico - 12.04.2010
Obviously, you deflect everything, as in your never wrong, so i see its impossible to have a conversation with you.
But, anyways, i ask you if you can prove if there isn't any blueprints either german originals or american ones based on the prototype(s) they colected.
- Guest - 12.04.2010
How long would it take for Tank to progress from Ta183 to Pulqui,if the war had lasted?...
- RedChico - 12.04.2010
EnsignRo Wrote:How long would it take for Tank to progress from Ta183 to Pulqui,if the war had lasted?...
if WW2 had lasted longer, logical thing to think its that needed materials would last longer.
So:
Me 262 was done.
He 162 was already doing 0 series (evaluation series) and some production models too.
Ta 183..... probably Q3 1945 or Q1 1946 due to structural problems among other things.
- ACE-OF-ACES - 12.04.2010
EnsignRo Wrote:How long would it take for Tank to progress from Ta183 to Pulqui,if the war had lasted?...Well if the FMA IAe 33 Pulqui II is any indication..
From the link Oddball provided it states
Quote:Its development was quite problematic and lengthy and it was never ordered into production
Which tells me
Timeline wise there would have been many an ABOMB lighting up the skys of Germany before the 1st 183 rolled off the production line
- ACE-OF-ACES - 12.04.2010
RedChico Wrote:Obviously, you deflect everything, as in your never wrong, so i see its impossible to have a conversation with you.Look
But, anyways, i ask you if you can prove if there isn't any blueprints either german originals or american ones based on the prototype(s) they colected.
I know your upset with me for pointing out the whole "Hitler also 'projected' he would invade England by the summer of 41" in response to Oddball's "The first flight of the aircraft was 'projected' for May 1945"
But that is no reason to keep asking me to produce something that does not exist
On that note
I got a crazy idea
Instead of you asking me to go find something that I said does not exist
Why don't you go out and find that something that you said does exist
Thus cutting out the middle man!
Deal?
Or is this the part where you tell me the blue prints are stored in area 51 next to the Roswell alien space craft and your clearance level does not allow you to remove any items from that section
But that we should take your word for it that they are there
- Aurora - 13.04.2010
ACE-OF-ACES Wrote:RedChico Wrote:Obviously, you deflect everything, as in your never wrong, so i see its impossible to have a conversation with you.Look
But, anyways, i ask you if you can prove if there isn't any blueprints either german originals or american ones based on the prototype(s) they colected.
I know your upset with me for pointing out the whole "Hitler also 'projected' he would invade England by the summer of 41" in response to Oddball's "The first flight of the aircraft was 'projected' for May 1945"
But that is no reason to keep asking me to produce something that does not exist
On that note
I got a crazy idea
Instead of you asking me to go find something that I said does not exist
Why don't you go out and find that something that you said does exist
Thus cutting out the middle man!
Deal?
Or is this the part where you tell me the blue prints are stored in area 51 next to the Roswell alien space craft and your clearance level does not allow you to remove any items from that section
But that we should take your word for it that they are there
Alright how about the "Amerika Bomber"?
- Storebror - 13.04.2010
Aurora Wrote:how about the "Amerika Bomber"?Which one of the dozens?
The ideas, projects, development directions and everything else were simple too diverse and obscure even to have a small chance to become reality.
Best regards - Mike
- ACE-OF-ACES - 13.04.2010
Storebror Wrote:+1Aurora Wrote:how about the "Amerika Bomber"?Which one of the dozens?
The ideas, projects, development directions and everything else were simple too diverse and obscure even to have a small chance to become reality.
- Thee_oddball - 13.04.2010
ACE-OF-ACES Wrote:Whoops!
I thought you were being sarcastic when you said the Ta183 would be operational!
My bad
I now see your serious!
That is the problem with sights like wiki and Luft46.com
Folks see a few fake blue prints and they think the plane was just moments away from flying
About the only thing the 183 did beyond a doodle on the back of a napkin was to make a wooden wind tunnel model
Which is light years away from a flyable test model let alone production model
All in all the Ta183 in it's current state in the game had about as much chance of flying as the Learch
NONE!
Thee_oddball of original author Wrote:The first flight of the aircraft was projected for May 1945Yes and I think Hitler also projected that he would invade England by the summer of 41 :lol:
Quote:Development of the Ta 183 started as early as 1942 as Project VI, when the engineer Hans Multhopp assembled a team to design a new fighter, based on his understanding that previous Focke-Wulf design studies for jet fighters had no chance of reaching fruition because none had the potential for transonic speeds. The aircraft was intended to use the advanced Heinkel HeS 011 turbojet, although the first prototypes were to be powered by the Junkers Jumo 004B. Early studies also included an optional 1,000 kgf (10 kN) thrust rocket engine for takeoff and combat boost, fuel for up to 200 seconds of burn time stored in drop tanks under the wings.
HE162
Quote:The requirement was issued 10 September 1944, with basic designs to be returned within 10 days and to start large scale production by 1 January 1945. Because the winner of the new lightweight fighter design would be building huge numbers of the planes, nearly every German aircraft manufacturer expressed interest in the project. However, Heinkel had already been working on a series of "paper projects" for light single-engine fighters over the last year under the designation P.1073, with most design work being completed by Professor Benz, and had gone so far as to build and test several models and conduct some wind tunnel testing
Both he 162 and 183 were "paper projects" with the difference being that there were a few models of the 162 for wind tunnel testing
Quote:The plane was in the air within an astoundingly short period of time: the design was chosen on 25 September and first flew on 6 December, less than 90 days later.[/u].
Quote:By the time of the German unconditional surrender on 8 May 1945, 120 He 162s had been delivered; a further 200 had been completed and were awaiting collection or flight-testing; and about 600 more were in various stages of production.
within a 6 month period they went from wind tunnel to producing 320 he162's now what do you think might have happened if the Germans had till April of 1946 to develop the 183? its a safe bet that they would beginning or already into flight tests , and then there is the Messerschmidt P.1101 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_P.1101 which (if the info is correct) had an %80 complete prototype by wars end
- Thee_oddball - 13.04.2010
EnsignRo Wrote:How long would it take for Tank to progress from Ta183 to Pulqui,if the war had lasted?...
you cannot compare Argentina's production capabilities or urgency with WW2 Germany, plus Tank had to redesign the fuselage to accommodate a centrifugal jet engine as apposed to a Axel design
- ACE-OF-ACES - 13.04.2010
Would this be a bad time to point out there is no santa claus or easter bunny
Or that wiki or Luft46.com are not the most reliable sorces?