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Ultimate Challange - Printable Version

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- snaphance - 11.10.2008

I actually did some thinking last night, and yea, the Amerika Bomber is too difficult for the game. I'll take the Hs 132 instead.

Or we could try the final "F-86" like design of the Messerschmitt Me P.1101

http://www.luft46.com/mess/mep1101.html

- Billfish - 11.10.2008

Though it never flew, and though the sim won't support it.....I read in NASA Tech Briefs their investigation into this very aircraft.....

Would of worked as is.....The Nuke the hold up.....

K2

- snaphance - 11.10.2008

Ok, I'm through with the Amerika Bomber. Now I'm pushing for the Hs-132

- Slow - 11.10.2008

Totally different question :wink:

- danger - 11.10.2008

snaphance Wrote:Ok, I'm through with the Amerika Bomber. Now I'm pushing for the Hs-132

as i said before... it never flew either.

- Chaoic16 - 11.10.2008

danger Wrote:
snaphance Wrote:Ok, I'm through with the Amerika Bomber. Now I'm pushing for the Hs-132

as i said before... it never flew either.

Even if it was never flown, it is still practical plane for IL-2 engine. There is always a way we can find 'predicted' realistic flight model for experimental and 'what if' aircraft that have not been flown yet. As long any aircraft is practical for IL-2 engine, then any efforts on any aircraft is worthy of time. What we need to do is find a solution to fulfill the FM data. There is always a way and that is why I wrote theories on this in first place. There is alway an answer if one of us are willing to find it.


Chaoic out...

- danger - 11.10.2008

Chaoic16 Wrote:
danger Wrote:
snaphance Wrote:Ok, I'm through with the Amerika Bomber. Now I'm pushing for the Hs-132

as i said before... it never flew either.

Even if it was never flown, it is still practical plane for IL-2 engine. There is always a way we can find 'predicted' realistic flight model for experimental and 'what if' aircraft that have not been flown yet. As long any aircraft is practical for IL-2 engine, then any efforts on any aircraft is worthy of time. What we need to do is find a solution to fulfill the FM data. There is always a way and that is why I wrote theories on this in first place. There is alway an answer if one of us are willing to find it.


Chaoic out...

maybe, but dont you think that looking at what planes have been made already, that the logic says that the modelers are more interested in historical correctness ? anyway, the Cessna, piper and other prop planes would be able to be used with the il2 engine, so should they be made aswell?

imho, i think that time spent would be better constructing history not fantasy for a historical ww2 flight sim.

- Chaoic16 - 11.10.2008

danger Wrote:
Chaoic16 Wrote:
danger Wrote:
snaphance Wrote:Ok, I'm through with the Amerika Bomber. Now I'm pushing for the Hs-132

as i said before... it never flew either.

Even if it was never flown, it is still practical plane for IL-2 engine. There is always a way we can find 'predicted' realistic flight model for experimental and 'what if' aircraft that have not been flown yet. As long any aircraft is practical for IL-2 engine, then any efforts on any aircraft is worthy of time. What we need to do is find a solution to fulfill the FM data. There is always a way and that is why I wrote theories on this in first place. There is alway an answer if one of us are willing to find it.


Chaoic out...

maybe, but dont you think that looking at what planes have been made already, that the logic says that the modelers are more interested in historical correctness ? anyway, the Cessna, piper and other prop planes would be able to be used with the il2 engine, so should they be made aswell?

imho, i think that time spent would be better constructing history not fantasy for a historical ww2 flight sim.

First at all, Cessena, piper and other civilian planes have nothing to do with this. The point of my debate is experimental and 'what if' warplanes. Since you stated your opinion, I will state mine right now. I will quote my posts to explain to you why I strongly disagree with you.

"The great lovely thing I have ever enjoyed IL-2 1946 is that they contains of both types of warplanes. Historical and experimental/what if aircraft where these would of have flown. And at the same time, I would experience unique type of dogfights being reproduced by IL-2 in a whole new atmosphere. However like I said above, the space based aircraft is not practical therefore is not made for IL-2 where I agreed with your statement. But at the same time, IL-2 experimental and 'what if' of war planes (not space based aircraft) is perfect for this IL-2 engine. This simulator of IL-2 is the very first, the only simulator that finally offers small tastes of experimental and 'what if' warplanes in great degree unlike any other simulator. And that is why I truly know that from my heart that, if more of both historical and experimental/'what if' aircraft are in IL-2 1946, it will be greatest thing for community of IL-2. There is already so many simulators that includes only historical warplanes and After over 11 years of simming (The first simulator I ever owned was Jane's Fighter Anthology then many different simulators came by.), I have never seen any single experimental and 'what if planes' with historical. After Oleg added 1946 to IL-2, I became shocked and got hope so high because I always dreamed of this moment for many years.

But now, after flying IL-2 1946, I was sorely disappointed that there is only a very few of experimental and what if planes that goes along with historical planes in realistic way, I decided that something MUST be done. So that is why I began working hard to support AAA community where aircraft requests library would come. And at the same time, I also would find many of best solution that would, not only give experimental and 'what if' aircraft best realistic 'predicted' FM we could get. These purpose is also to get best realistic FM for historical aircraft at the same time. So that way people would become more 'flexible' toward experimental and 'what if' where it would be our chance to finally learn something from these that no one would ever taken opportunity to do so. But not only from Luftwaffe 46', but other country's experimental and 'what if' aircraft too of course.

I am doing everything in small steps a time, where I follow the steps taken by AAA community, the very steps where AAA modders began to expand the abilities to mod the engine of IL-2. At once the time is right, I would start to expand my theories and aircraft requests library that would give both historical and experimental/'what if' plane much better chance to be pushed forward into IL-2 world even further together where I hope that would provide to be very helpful to AAA modders.

Consider it as an opportunity for any of us to finally experience something so different in best, most realistic way that no other simulator have yet ever achieved. This AAA community and modders have this opportunity now."

Now you see why I have been very wearily and tired to see no simulator that have ever approached this way where the historical, experimental, and 'what if' warplanes would come together in realistic way. It is never a waste of time to work on experimental and 'what if' warplanes that would fit IL-2 engine perfectly, along with other historical planes. It is never impossible to find the 'predicted' accurate flight model for these planes,if you at least have a open-minded and is willing to realize it. I am doing this for sake of unique experiences where this AAA may finally offers for the very first time in the world of simulator where no other simulator have ever, ever done in great degree.

And to these whom still 'spit' on my opinion, start look at this way. It already have been so over decades that simulator already have only contained of historical warplanes, it keep going in same cycle with no opportunities to also find the way to include experimental and 'what if' warplanes where these would have changed the war or outcome of war in realistic way, especially to learn from these planes where how would these planes make a different in war or not. In order to find the answers, we must find it because it doesn't come to us. We will have to go and find it together! And that is why I even wrote theories about how we can find best 'predicted' FM, not only for experimental and 'what if' warplanes but for correcting any flawed FM of existing warplanes in IL-2 *in new slot*! One of other reason why people also refuses experimental and 'what if', is because of one word.. FEAR! it is their fears that people whom make experimental and 'what if' add-on aircraft would only guess FM or giving it terribly inaccurate FM. I know HOW they feel, I DO! But how do I know? Its because when I flew many different simulators and I alway wanted to know what it is like to fly real warplanes virtually. That is where I wanted to find best simulator for it over these years. But since computer technologies and software evolved so much over these time. And now since the tools that study and test aircraft virtually exists and that is when I became more 'open-minded' with experimental and 'what if' planes since I no longer fears of flying these warplanes with inaccurate FM anymore. So fearing of inaccurate FM is no longer the case anymore and we had to seek for work on getting best, most accurate FM for any warplanes that we would add to IL-2 1946 together.

I will repeat this, this is chance for AAA to turn Oleg's IL-2 1946 into the very first and only first simulator that will feature historical, experimental, and 'what if' warplanes together and it is already very possible! At once this achieved, we would get to gain many unique experiences from this where we have never experienced before. And remember, several of us are being open-minded to this becuase of damn good reasons and because what we have experienced and seen as computer technology and softwares have evolved over decades. I am doing whatever it take for every single fo us to experience what I have been awaiting for over a decade in IL-2 1946 world.


Chaoic out...

- RAF_Magpie - 11.10.2008

danger Wrote:
Chaoic16 Wrote:
danger Wrote:
snaphance Wrote:Ok, I'm through with the Amerika Bomber. Now I'm pushing for the Hs-132

as i said before... it never flew either.

Even if it was never flown, it is still practical plane for IL-2 engine. There is always a way we can find 'predicted' realistic flight model for experimental and 'what if' aircraft that have not been flown yet. As long any aircraft is practical for IL-2 engine, then any efforts on any aircraft is worthy of time. What we need to do is find a solution to fulfill the FM data. There is always a way and that is why I wrote theories on this in first place. There is alway an answer if one of us are willing to find it.


Chaoic out...

maybe, but dont you think that looking at what planes have been made already, that the logic says that the modelers are more interested in historical correctness ? anyway, the Cessna, piper and other prop planes would be able to be used with the il2 engine, so should they be made aswell?

imho, i think that time spent would be better constructing history not fantasy for a historical ww2 flight sim.

Hmmm Piper Cub... Idea

- snaphance - 11.10.2008

Ok, the Hs-132 had a design and layout similar to the He-162. I'm guessing that performance would have been similar.

- danger - 12.10.2008

ok, so "what if" ?

what if arms developers invented a warp drive? extreme i know but thats how far it could be taken, aint it.
maybe we need the volkswaffe http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QbL1_oRCd ... re=related

i repeat, il2 is meant to be a historically correct ww2 flight simulation, the fact that olegg decided to put in a couple of experimental planes does NOT suggest that it should be law that more cr*p should be made. i say if you want to play with "what if" and "experiments" then go play garys mod or xwing or something, adding these planes would simply destroy the realism and historical correctness of this fine SIMULATION.
ppl can argue the toss forever and a day on this one but the facts still stand!!!!!

ohh, and for the record, i am working on the japanese airforce, i have already started construction on 2 projects( both historical) and will be submitting them in due course to AAA for fm/dm attachment.

- danger - 12.10.2008

so,Chaoic16, do you think think that experiments should be worked on BEFORE realism then? is that what you are saying?
happily , i think the integrity of the modelers will overcome the desire for what if scenarios Big Grin

- Bee - 12.10.2008

danger Wrote:ok, so "what if" ?

what if arms developers invented a warp drive? extreme i know but thats how far it could be taken, aint it.
maybe we need the volkswaffe http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QbL1_oRCd ... re=related

i repeat, il2 is meant to be a historically correct ww2 flight simulation, the fact that olegg decided to put in a couple of experimental planes does NOT suggest that it should be law that more cr*p should be made. i say if you want to play with "what if" and "experiments" then go play garys mod or xwing or something, adding these planes would simply destroy the realism and historical correctness of this fine SIMULATION.
ppl can argue the toss forever and a day on this one but the facts still stand!!!!!

ohh, and for the record, i am working on the japanese airforce, i have already started construction on 2 projects( both historical) and will be submitting them in due course to AAA for fm/dm attachment.


I completely agree with you, Danger.

This love affair with wet-dream Waffe and '46 types will take the sim in a very bad direction if it is allowed to continue. It is nothing more than a training ground for future cheats and the UFO's that the anti-mod crowd have been predicting all year. :evil:

- Triad773 - 12.10.2008

snaphance Wrote:Ok, I'm through with the Amerika Bomber. Now I'm pushing for the Hs-132

Henschel's Hs 132 was a World War II dive bomber and interceptor aircraft of the German Luftwaffe that never saw service. The unique design featured a top-mounted jet engine and the pilot in a prone position. The Soviet Army occupied the factory just as the Hs 132 V1 was nearing flight testing, the V2 and V3 being 80% and 75% completed.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henschel_Hs_132

Okay so another 'what if.' There is so much already under development- aircraft that really flew, played a role in the war. And of course these folks do this for gratis, for the enjoyment of IL-2 and the community at large. I know from my time hear I have come to appreciate very much all that has been done, while not asking for superfluous items. Don't think the Hs 132 is that different or interesting to warrant my interest.

Now the He 100 might be interesting. But my understanding is that engine failure isn't modelled in the game Tongue With what's in the works like the Lancaster, and other great planes (see (The link is inoperative) for list) I myself find it difficult to ask for anything until some of what's in the pipeline comes to life.

Just an opinion.

~S~

Triad

- goshikisen - 12.10.2008

Bee Wrote:
danger Wrote:i repeat, il2 is meant to be a historically correct ww2 flight simulation, the fact that olegg decided to put in a couple of experimental planes does NOT suggest that it should be law that more cr*p should be made. i say if you want to play with "what if" and "experiments" then go play garys mod or xwing or something, adding these planes would simply destroy the realism and historical correctness of this fine SIMULATION.

This love affair with wet-dream Waffe and '46 types will take the sim in a very bad direction if it is allowed to continue. It is nothing more than a training ground for future cheats and the UFO's that the anti-mod crowd have been predicting all year. :evil:

From what I've read it takes a good number of people to bring a mesh, DM and FM together into a usable IL2 model... and a whole wack of time. If that's the case then you would hope that effort would be concentrated on aircraft that had a large role to play in reality and would be the most useful to the community. There are many, perhaps, "unglamorous" aircraft that played a significant role in WWII and aren't currently in the sim (aircraft like the C-46, Helldiver, Barracuda come to mind). For that matter there are still a good number of very interesting fighters that saw significant use that are still not in the sim (P-47N, Ki-44, Ki-45 for ex.)

I applaud AAA for sticking to aircraft that will benefit IL2 and the community the most. Rocket planes and Blueprint "What if" planes are not what give the IL2 series legs and longevity. Map builders, skinners, those who build campaigns... they benefit the most from important aircraft that saw action.