UltraPack 2.0 or HSFX? - Printable Version
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+---- Thread: UltraPack 2.0 or HSFX? (/showthread.php?tid=67667)
- Kwiatek - 05.01.2010
fly_zo Wrote:it is easy to take Hunin's work and make fun of it .... now when it's done and finished .... where have you been when it had to be build from scratch ? Z
Well i were on the another site beacuse i was banned here. Truly speaking i was banned here beacuse i wrote such facts like now if you dont remember.
fly_zo Wrote:Take some brand new slot plane , build FM for it from scratch ... and i'll listen !
for now t'is like putting stencils on already finished skin ... not much glory/honor in that
These is what im doing for some time. Im taking new planes and make new FM's for them. Hunin and and many others dont make FMs from the begining - they used stock ones - and the same way copied their faults and shortcomings. We all used 1C team work. These is the fact.
Yes i used someone work i mean ready new planes class and models and thank them for these. But i really think that not all should touch FM's. If they are good in making new planes, cocpits, paintschemes so better let them do what they know how to make well.
- BBury - 05.01.2010
I'm not going to indulge the debate of who's mod is better than who's. I've been simming since before EAW and have been involved in modding since that time. Every flight sim that was cracked or open to mods has had these very same arguments. EVERY ONE!
I have been invloved with IL-2 since before UBiSoft was chosen as the publisher. Some of you may remember that BlueByte was going to be the original publisher when we all applied to be the original beta testers and we all worked with Oleg from the start about what could and couldn't be done with this sim.
The previous administration here at AAA released a number of mods that had some errors. The current AAA mod team has released some mods with errors. Oleg Maddox at 1C released patchs and updates with errors. With every group that created anything for this sim, they eventually update or correct something that was released. Discussing who is better than who is a complete waste of time and effort. It sounds like a bunch of children arguing in a school yard. What we should do is have a "community quality control" forum with plenty of testing before anything is released. To benefit everyone. Not just one mod group or another.
I'm not too partial about any particular mod group. I work most closely here at AAA because they helped me understand modding, generate real mods and have a lot of talent here.
What I see is that AAA, SAS, HSFX, etc... make the majority of the actual mods. "UP" is more of a compilation of most everyone elses mods with very few of their own. "UP" then looks at everyone elses mods, that they didn't create yet include in their own compilation, and then pick it apart and make their own adjustments before any of the original modders have a chance to release a followup with their own corrections if needed, instead of working with the rest of the community to achieve some sort of real unity.
With that said, I've seen some of the UP debates about what a particular planes curve look like compared to a completely different plane in the game. This doesn't make any sense. Any plane should be compared against the best available real world data for that particular plane. Having an opinion about how a particular plane against another is just that. Building a plane based on actual data is the goal here at AAA. We don't base our plane build on how we feel or how it should perform against another.
Now to FM's and EMD's. I've seen UP debate certain values in the FM's and EMD's (engine files). The question or critiques they have appear be out of ignorance of either the actual aircraft data or how the game uses the information in these files. Even the world's most advanced flight simulations, full scale full motion simulators, have to "adjust" certain variables to achieve the desired result because of the limitations of either computing power or available code to model aerodynamics. There isn't a computer yet built that can fully model the environment and all the aerodynamic variables required for a 100% accurate FM. We have to do the best we can with the available code in the game.
Personally I think threads like this one are a travesty that only divide the efforts and unity that these small communities need. Any future threads that start comparing one mod team against another should be locked immediately or erased. They serve no USEFUL purpose.
I'm not all knowing or know everything about this sim but these are my observations and opinions.
Cheers!
BB
- fly_zo - 05.01.2010
Kwiatek Wrote:fly_zo Wrote:it is easy to take Hunin's work and make fun of it .... now when it's done and finished .... where have you been when it had to be build from scratch ? Z
Kwiatek Wrote:Well i were on the another site beacuse i was banned here. Truly speaking i was banned here beacuse i wrote such facts like now if you dont remember.
you were banned from here cos you were insulting Hunin's work ... after FM was done , not before !
you had no respect for others work then ... and you don't have any now
just proves that we were right with ban decision in your case
fly_zo Wrote:Take some brand new slot plane , build FM for it from scratch ... and i'll listen !
for now t'is like putting stencils on already finished skin ... not much glory/honor in that
Kwiatek Wrote:These is what im doing for some time. Im taking new planes and make new FM's for them. Hunin and and many others dont make FMs from the begining - they used stock ones - and the same way copied their faults and shortcomings. We all used 1C team work. These is the fact.
Yes i used someone work i mean ready new planes class and models and thank them for these. But i really think that not all should touch FM's. If they are good in making new planes, cocpits, paintschemes so better let them do what they know how to make well.
the thing is that someone had to discover and make it first ... and that was Hunin ... you just walked in on finished work playing Monday's quarterback ( or general after battle )
Z
- Kwiatek - 05.01.2010
fly_zo Wrote:you were banned from here cos you were insulting Hunin's work ... after FM was done , not before !
you had no respect for others work then ... and you don't have any now
just proves that we were right with ban decision in your case
Or rather becasue here you didn't tolerate any criticism these times . Anybody from AAA team didnt even try to dicsuss about these facts - only response was bann. It looks like that now it is not not otherwise. I thank that at Ultr@Pack site there are another rules at least.
- Monguse - 05.01.2010
What we need to do is focus on working together.
Oh, if it were only that easy.
- fly_zo - 05.01.2010
Kwiatek Wrote:fly_zo Wrote:you were banned from here cos you were insulting Hunin's work ... after FM was done , not before !
you had no respect for others work then ... and you don't have any now
just proves that we were right with ban decision in your case
Or rather becasue here you didn't tolerate any criticism these times . Anybody from AAA team didnt even try to dicsuss about these facts - only response was bann. It looks like that now it is not not otherwise. I thank that at Ultr@Pack site there are another rules at least.
constructive criticism is one thing ... and insulting someone's work is totally different thing
If you wanted to participate you could have made effort and make FM for some other plane ... that way you would have been taken seriously but just with trashing Hunin's work - no chance .
Z
- Kwiatek - 05.01.2010
Monguse Wrote:What we need to do is focus on working together.
Oh, if it were only that easy.
Yea you could right beacase for now we are wasting time here. But the point is what is yours aim?
You want to makes balance planes with Olegs standarts here or you want more historical accuracy. Beacuse if balance i really dont see any sens to work toghether
- Thrud - 05.01.2010
just an observation, Fly zo mentioned balance, Monguse didn't.
- Kwiatek - 05.01.2010
fly_zo Wrote:Kwiatek Wrote:fly_zo Wrote:you were banned from here cos you were insulting Hunin's work ... after FM was done , not before !
you had no respect for others work then ... and you don't have any now
just proves that we were right with ban decision in your case
Or rather becasue here you didn't tolerate any criticism these times . Anybody from AAA team didnt even try to dicsuss about these facts - only response was bann. It looks like that now it is not not otherwise. I thank that at Ultr@Pack site there are another rules at least.
constructive criticism is one thing ... and insulting someone's work is totally different thing
If you wanted to participate you could have made effort and make FM for some other plane ... that way you would have been taken seriously but just with trashing Hunin's work - no chance .
Z
I try to always check some facts and hang for historical data and sources before start to criticise. These is not call constructive critisism? I see here that not much people coud do the same.
And for you know i made many FM's for UP like Spit MK1 +12lbs, Hurricane Mk1 +12lbs, all new Fw 190 A series and new D-9 ones, also many 109 from B-2 E-1, E-3/4, F-2, F-4, G-2,G-6 1.3 Ata and 1.42 Ata and some others.
- fly_zo - 05.01.2010
.. what are you talking here , historical accuracy without balance ?
nonsense !
for that you need to rework all FM's for all planes in game in order to maintain playability
otherwise you will have bunch of favorite uberplanes which will result with constant "fights" in community
Z
p.s. sorry but i'll rather put my trust in Oleg's judgment (FM) than in yours .... cos he knows game engine limitations better than anyone
- Kwiatek - 05.01.2010
You could trust everone you want. Also you could belive in super russian delta wood or Yeti or UberLA.
I will to trust real life pilots opinion, RL test and aerodynamics law .
- Monguse - 05.01.2010
As I noted more than once at UP.
There could be two efforts, one historically based which would entail revamping everything, and I mean everything. Damage for everything, new hit boxes with new algorithms, re work the game engine. If we all want full 100% real life stuff that is what we need to do. Cherry picking some stuff and calling it Real is bunk. It's like getting ready to sell your house by just painting the front door and calling it done. It does not work. To continue, we can not just focus on just Western aircraft, what about the IJN stuff, Italian aircraft to name a few?
The other avenue is to make the planes we have behave close to Oleg's standard. There is a bit of latitude in working with a standard and we can come to some kind of agreement.
Both avenues are acceptable provided the end user gets the whole package and not anything less. If historical is the way to go everything must be changed, this means stock objects all of them and their supporting code. This by no means is an easy feat and I truly doubt I will see this effort completed in my lifetime. If we ad hear to the standard set we can enjoy what we have and produce rather than argue.
That said, going historical is a slippery slope as I noted at UP. Adding to my last statement, anyone attempting to do historical will have to convince everyone on the planet its historical as opposed to if Oleg or Team Diadolos made the changes.
So what say you? We can either all sing on the same sheet of music or not. When al of this began we had an idea what we all wanted, what was not discussed were the motives and procedures. I know for a fact we did not choose one FM guy what we did say was we would work together.
I'm still waiting for the 'together' part.
The ball is in your court, do we work together for the benefit of the community (on and offline) and stop this bickering or continue and show good faith?
- Guest - 05.01.2010
Monguse is right. I spoke to him before about this, and even changing the .303's to make them historically accurate is an enormous task.....and that's just the .303's! Imagine the amount of time it would take to make EVERYTHING historically accurate? You could be talking years here depending on how many people are willing to do it.
- max_thehitman - 05.01.2010
Monguse Wrote:As I noted more than once at UP.
...
So what say you? We can either all sing on the same sheet of music or not. When al of this began we had an idea what we all wanted, what was not discussed were the motives and procedures. I know for a fact we did not choose one FM guy what we did say was we would work together.
I'm still waiting for the 'together' part.
The ball is in your court, do we work together for the benefit of the community (on and offline) and stop this bickering or continue and show good faith?
Yes, I agree .
Working together gets the job done better.
:drinking:
- JG3_VonHahn - 05.01.2010
by reading this threat I start to miss the good old times, where were only one mod package (UI), and all new released mods were tested (except beta mods, which were not officially AAA) befor that, more than any before.
THere were no Historical (new planes) versus balance plane arguments. There were not the must to choose an appropriate modpackage. everyone could have those mods he liked.
Its a shame that this community is now falling apart. It were great times. By now, even more topics with arguments and stuff.
If I