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MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a - Printable Version

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- ACE-OF-ACES - 17.04.2010

TheGrunch Wrote:Yes it can. Smile How about "
Ok show me.. Wink

TheGrunch Wrote:Their current jet designs were more advanced than the Allies', but still not good enough at shooting down bombers"
Translated the Me262 was not good enough to shoot down allied bombers

Doesn't that conflict with what the norm would have us belive about the Me262?

TheGrunch Wrote:or "Their current jet designs were more advanced than the Allies', but the Germans foresaw the need to keep advancing just in case the Allies caught up."
That would make the Germans look pretty silly than

Considering the realities of the time

As in

Quote:German Engineers
Hey.. we are 5 years ahead of the allied with our current Jets

But even with that edge it looks like we are going to loose the war in 5 weeks

Time to start designing even better jets!!

Than again the German were never accused of making smart war winning decisions with regards to resorces! Wink

Take a look at the V2 program

So there is something about that last one that rings true! Wink

- TheGrunch - 17.04.2010

Well, given the number of enemy aircraft they were facing, any kind of force-multiplication had to be a plus, right?

- Guest - 17.04.2010

ACE-OF-ACES Wrote:Actully the delay do to Hitler wanting to make it a bomber is a myth

The real hold up was the engines

And the fact remains that the Me262 was intally designed as a 'straight' wing fighter

And that they swept the wings to correct the cg

Yes,engines were a problem...there is always problems with new technology,especialy if you lack proper materials...yes,they swept the wing further back because of heavier Jumo's..which had it's benefits.

ACE-OF-ACES Wrote:So let me see if I understand your so called proof

An ex nazi pilot said he liked the Me262 better

Big suprise

Not to mention he did not say what better means

For all you know he ment he like the looks better

Do you know of any other pilot that had practical experience with those two planes?

- Thee_oddball - 17.04.2010

TheGrunch Wrote:To be fair ACE, at that stage in the war the Nazis were desperately grasping for anything that might give them an advantage against the Allied bombing campaign and to delay their defeat, so why wouldn't they be developing newer and better designs as fast as they could, regardless of the state of Allied jet development? Surpassing Allied jet development was no doubt considered important, but only in the sense that it was a prerequisite in order that Luftwaffe pilots could shoot as many bombers out of the sky as possible without losing too many aircraft.

+1

TheGrunch Wrote:Yes it can. Smile How about "Their current jet designs were more advanced than the Allies', but still not good enough at shooting down bombers" or "Their current jet designs were more advanced than the Allies', but the Germans foresaw the need to keep advancing just in case the Allies caught up."

+1

ACE-OF-ACES Wrote:Some would call it silly

When you consider the fact their resources were strapped

Thus the only logical conclusion one can make is they knew their current crop of jets were not going to maintain the edge over the allied planes

Thus dispelling the myth that their current crops of jets were more advanced than anything the allied had

Note I said logical conclusion

Thus you mileage may vary Big Grin

It was no Myth and I already showed you that 2 posts ago...and I highly doubt Watson's Whizzers were scouring German bases looking for the best recipe for wienerschnitzel Tongue and just because you have the latest and the greatest does not mean to stop looking for the next, the he162 was part of the "emergency fighter program" meant for the Hitler youth and the ta183/P.1101 were the replacement for the me262 much like the f86 replaced the f80 and the mig15 replaced the mig9 in a short time...evolve or die.

p.s the ME262 was more than capable of shooting a bomber down....just not enough of them used en mass

- ACE-OF-ACES - 17.04.2010

TheGrunch Wrote:Well, given the number of enemy aircraft they were facing, any kind of force-multiplication had to be a plus, right?
True

But it is still one of two choices

- ACE-OF-ACES - 17.04.2010

EnsignRo Wrote:Do you know of any other pilot that had practical experience with those two planes?
I know Howard Hughes thought it was a great plane

The Me262 that Howard Hughes use to own and tried to use at RENO use to be out at Chino airport, that I use to live only about 15 miles from for 30+ years

But Howard Hughes modified it quite a bit to make it race worthy

Other than him, I have read some pilots that test flew it after the war and they were not that imprssed

- ACE-OF-ACES - 17.04.2010

Thee_oddball Wrote:It was no Myth and I already showed you that 2 posts ago...and I highly doubt Watson's Whizzers were scouring German bases looking for the best recipe for wienerschnitzel Tongue and just because you have the latest and the greatest does not mean to stop looking for the next, the he162 was part of the "emergency fighter program" meant for the Hitler youth and the ta183/P.1101 were the replacement for the me262 much like the f86 replaced the f80 and the mig15 replaced the mig9 in a short time...evolve or die.

p.s the ME262 was more than capable of shooting a bomber down....just not enough of them used en mass
Interesting theory

But back to the question

Of the two choices, ie

1) Their current jet designs were more advanced than the allied and did NOT need replacing
2) Their current jet designs were NOT more advanced than the allied and did need replacing

Which 'ONE' do you pick?

- Guest - 18.04.2010

ACE-OF-ACES Wrote:
Thee_oddball Wrote:Which 'ONE' do you pick?


Third option?In case of Focke Wulf,when new fighter enters service (regardless of how good it is) it's successor is already on the drawing boards...that might be the case for other German manufacturers?

- ACE-OF-ACES - 18.04.2010

no sorry only two options/choices

- Thee_oddball - 18.04.2010

EnsignRo Wrote:Third option?In case of Focke Wulf,when new fighter enters service (regardless of how good it is) it's successor is already on the drawing boards...that might be the case for other German manufacturers?

+1

ACE-OF-ACES Wrote:no sorry only two options/choices

this is not a multiple choice test ACE...the Germans were working on some cutting edge tech before the end of the war, the Americans Russians and British could accept this why cant you? 2 years after the mig 9 came the mig15 , 4 years after the f80 came the f86 , 6 years after the vampire came the Hawker hunter all of this in peace time..why? because the swept wing was a leap not a step in terms of fighter development.
4 years after the 262 would have been..183? P.1101?..another design? the same year the 262 made its first flight the work had started on the ta183. and in terms of resources giving 10 engines and materials to make 5 prototypes will not change the course of a war...evolve or die.

S!

- ACE-OF-ACES - 18.04.2010

Thee_oddball Wrote:this is not a multiple choice test ACE...
Actually it is

Which one do you choose?

1) Their current jet designs were more advanced than the allied and did NOT need replacing
2) Their current jet designs were NOT more advanced than the allied and did need replacing

In that both can not exist at the same time

- Thee_oddball - 18.04.2010

ACE-OF-ACES Wrote:
Thee_oddball Wrote:this is not a multiple choice test ACE...
Actually it is

Which one do you choose?

1) Their current jet designs were more advanced than the allied and did NOT need replacing
2) Their current jet designs were NOT more advanced than the allied and did need replacing

In that both can not exist at the same time

number 2 does not apply and number 1 is incomplete

"Their current jet designs were more advanced than the allied and did not need replacing at present"

S!

- ACE-OF-ACES - 18.04.2010

so you pick No. 2, i.e.

2) Their current jet designs were NOT more advanced than the allied and did need replacing

Good choice

- Thee_oddball - 18.04.2010

as for Howard Hughes 262 for what i understand he was pressured into removing it from competetion due to the fact that he had stripped it down to the bare minimum and there was some fear it might beat the f80

S!

- Thee_oddball - 18.04.2010

ACE-OF-ACES Wrote:so you pick No. 2, i.e.

2) Their current jet designs were NOT more advanced than the allied and did need replacing

Good choice

you cant handle loosing an augment can you....put up or shutup ACE