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UltraPack 2.0 or HSFX? - Printable Version

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+--- Forum: IL-2 4.09m (https://allaircraftsimulations.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=348)
+---- Forum: IL2 MODS Discussion Section 4.09m (https://allaircraftsimulations.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=292)
+---- Thread: UltraPack 2.0 or HSFX? (/showthread.php?tid=67667)

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- Monguse - 10.01.2010

The only ban across all or most forums is editing existing stock aircraft and weapons. The only exception are operable canopies that affect online play.

If you have noticed, SAS now has fm for online and offline.

- 56RAF_Kernow - 11.01.2010

Having just got HSFX and upgraded to 4.1, I was not inclined to get UP2.0, as it was sure to be another mega d/l & install (HSFX had worked like a dream, so I didn't want to upset a working set up). Some of the things I heard about UP made me even less inclined to get it. Suspicions appeared to be confirmed by some of the attitudes I came across from UP advocates... However, I started a few trials with Infomod/IL2C and compare them to Gryphon's efforts with UP/IL2C, and was surprised by the result.

I made a post in reply the Crash's 'open letter' on the UP forums:

http://il2ultrapack.net46.net/index.php ... 15240.html

It only deals with BoB-era Spits & Emils, but, in that case at least and to my mind, the UP changes make sense.

I'll post the link in a relevant FM discussion thread - or start a new one if needs be.

A united modpack is sorely needed.

Re: UP 2.0 or HSFX - Bearcat - 11.01.2010

BO Rittel Wrote:I think you should make two installs and decide for yourself. This isn't exactly an unbiased website you are asking this question on and can lead to a lot of misinformation from guys who haven't flown both, or from guys that have a biased opinion.

I have both.. I have flown both .... and I prefer HSFX.. While it is true that UP is a very good mod pack... based on my preferred aircraft.... and the issues I know to be true that I wont elaborate on here... I decided , along with the rest of the 99th.. to stick with HSFX... No bias here... I thought UP 1.8 was a fantastic piece of work... at first.. but as I flew itg I noticed differences... and there are still things about UP that I prefer... but overall for what I need HSFX 4.1 is more applicable.

=BLW=PabloSniper Wrote:more fights and accusations without evidence?
this is very sad for everyone.
as to which is better, if the UP 2.0 is a refinement of HSFX 4.1, obviously, UP is better.
But I'm not here to defend anyone.
Just answer me one question.
Which the best server in HL?
Which the package MODS he is using?

That is a part of my issue... Just who is UP to refine HSFX? Not only that ... IMO this brings us right back to ... will we or will we not have an unbranded mod pack... ? In order for that to truly happen UP, SAS,AAA & 242 have to agree on what FMs & Dms they will use.. otherwise.. if HSFX comes out with a mod pack... and UP feels that it needs "refinement" then.... there is no unbranded mod pack. If at least the big 4... UP, SAS,AAA and HSFX.. since HSFX has the compiler... and I refuse to even bother using any mod pack that does not have HSFX in it... as far as I am concerned the days of the 3.5 minute loads are DONE for me. If I have to accept a particular FM whether I like it fully or not.. then I am williong to do so... and all things being as they are ... if DT comes out with something that can resecure the FMs & DMs then I just might go back to stock... but I have grown used to 6DoF.. and the mod maps.... I like the work of Guse & crew on the new Mustangs.. and frankly I don't think they needed any "refining" .... So there it is.. for me at least.... I see no point in using a mod pack that contains a mod pack ... and some more stuff.. I would rather get the original mod pack...

8FS_Bulau Wrote:
megalopsuche Wrote:UP2 screwed with the stock dm's and fm's. That's a line that should have never been crossed.
If I'm going to settle on any mod it's hsfx.
Hades has categorically stated, on AAA forum, that UP did not do any of that:

StG77_HaDeS Wrote:So hear it first hand:
The UP 2.0 has not modified any Stock-Flyable (Oleg-made) plane. The UP 2.0 has not modified any Stock weapons.

viewtopic.php?t=24027&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Yes but IMO they should not have modified any aircraft without giving it a new slot.. To modify an aircraft's FM or DM... any aircraft's FM/DM that was not created by UP and to reinsert it as XYZ aircraft even if you believe you are correcting a flaw is wrong.

Period.

The creators of that mod aircraft made it to whatever standards they made it to.. and it should be up to the mod user to decide which one he prefers to use... and it is up to the modders.. to make sure that they do not step on each other's toes...

Not only that... You can't compare plane vs plane specs.... You need to take the performance data for a given aircraft... and compare the modded aircraft to that data and let the plane vs plane issues be worked out by the pilots... because the pilot was a huge factor in plane vs plane issues.. technically Boyington should have gotten waxed.. On paper there are clear advantages in aircraft... but the pilots make thye difference.. so you cant mod aircraft for "balance" etc...

I decided to go with HSFX after switching to UP 1.8 because I noticed differences between the DMs & FMs of certain planes between UI 1.2 and UP 1.8, and my primary goal was to get 4.09m compatible in order to fascilitate the change from anythuing other than the latest official patch.. which IMO is what we all should be striving to do.

None of us should forget that, while we do have mods and they are not going away, and yes I think they are a good thing for the sim, we must not forget that 1C made the sim.. not AAA... not SAA... not UP... not C6.... not 242... and we should try to always keep this sim moving towards working off of whatever official version of the sim there is....

That of course is just my opinion.

- Guest - 12.01.2010

Can someone please gve me a good reason why anyone is in such a rush they can't wait 2 minutes (my loading time is roughly that) to wait for a modded version of il-2 using the original mod strcuture? I'm just curious, as I am happy to wait that time if it means having a version of Il-2 where I an get every mod running together without conflicts.

- Radoye - 12.01.2010

philip.ed Wrote:Can someone please gve me a good reason why anyone is in such a rush they can't wait 2 minutes (my loading time is roughly that) to wait for a modded version of il-2 using the original mod strcuture? I'm just curious, as I am happy to wait that time if it means having a version of Il-2 where I an get every mod running together without conflicts.
On my rig, with UI 1.1.1 (or what was the last version before 1.2) plus some beta planes from here plus SAS buttons and planes plus some Aviaskins stuff, the initial load time was well over 5 minutes, approaching 7. That is just too much.

Even without all the extra stuff i added the standard UI 1.1 load times were quite long.

So when 4.09 came out and UI 1.2 did not support it, i switched to HSFX - which had most of the stuff i used with my bloated UI 1.1 install - the load times came down to under one minute, a huge improvement.

The old mods structure IMHO became unable to handle the size and number of mods in the latest modpacks, clearly SFS is the way to go. It does lack a little with flexibility but the improvement in load times and stability is worth it.

- fly_zo - 12.01.2010

Radoye Wrote:
philip.ed Wrote:Can someone please gve me a good reason why anyone is in such a rush they can't wait 2 minutes (my loading time is roughly that) to wait for a modded version of il-2 using the original mod strcuture? I'm just curious, as I am happy to wait that time if it means having a version of Il-2 where I an get every mod running together without conflicts.
On my rig, with UI 1.1.1 (or what was the last version before 1.2) plus some beta planes from here plus SAS buttons and planes plus some Aviaskins stuff, the initial load time was well over 5 minutes, approaching 7. That is just too much.

Even without all the extra stuff i added the standard UI 1.1 load times were quite long.

So when 4.09 came out and UI 1.2 did not support it, i switched to HSFX - which had most of the stuff i used with my bloated UI 1.1 install - the load times came down to under one minute, a huge improvement.

The old mods structure IMHO became unable to handle the size and number of mods in the latest modpacks, clearly SFS is the way to go. It does lack a little with flexibility but the improvement in load times and stability is worth it.

5 minutes ? .... you had messed up installation m8 (lots of multiple files in "Files /Mods" ... hashed and common ... so wrapper needs time to check them all out ) ..... or very,very slow PC

fully modded UI 1.2 (customized to my taste ....JAFA sounds in Mods folder , all my favorite cockpits , custom default skins, maps+objects etc) never exceeds 40/50 seconds !

Intel core2 quad Q9550 2.83 ... clocked to 3.65GHz
4Gb DDR2
Win7 64 Ultimate

reg
Z

- Guest - 12.01.2010

The only thing putting me off HSFX is they way the mods tructure has changed. Too many people are complaining about it to make me want to install it. If someone knows of a guide/piece of information written on the mods structure of HSFX then i would be all ears (or considering I'd be reading it, all eyes Wink )

Load times don't bother me. I just want to know I can get all my mods working. The other thing that puts me off is that as far as I am aware, you can't get the .303 tracer mod to work.

- Trooper117 - 12.01.2010

I have a heavily modded original install, everything manualy installed, plus a UI v1.2 that I used for online play, and both would load up in the following times.. initial first load of the day, 1 minute 43 secs.. subsequent loading times would then be 35 secs max..(just re-timed it again to make sure I'm not talking crap)... I have a decent rig but by no means top of the range, so I have no idea where these massive load times are coming from, unless you own a pc from the stoneage..
The UI is still my favourite option as I have total control over what I put in it or take out.. the quicker we go back to an up to date UI version the better.. Just my personal opinion.

- Radoye - 12.01.2010

under HSFX structure the additional mods work exactly the same as before.

You have the initial package in SFS files and some optional mods that you can activate with JSGME (mostly eye candy).

The buttons INI and PROPERTIES files are in the FILES folder - same file structure as before.

If you make copies of these and put them into a MODS/STD folder you can customize them just as you did before. All additional mods go into this MODS folder. If you want to revert to the standard HSFX for online compatibility, just disable temporarily this MODS folder and the game will load using default INIs from the FILES folder.

The game still loads from MODS first, then from FILES then from SFS's just like before. Piece of cake.

Be aware that the added stuff will again impact load times, but since most of the mods are in SFS files this new MODS folder won't have such a great footprint as before. In any case, you did said you're not bothered by this, so it should be fine for you.




@zo - yes, my comp is showing his age quite a bit. The slow load times could something to do with low HD space too - before i switched to HSFX-type mods my HD was nearly full. Having most of the mod files compressed into SFS archives freed up some space for me (several Gb's worth of space actually!).

Since at the moment there is no way i can afford a new one, this one will have to do for now. So anything that speeds up things and frees up some space is most welcome!

- Radoye - 12.01.2010

Trooper117 Wrote:initial first load of the day, 1 minute 43 secs.. subsequent loading times would then be 35 secs max..(just re-timed it again to make sure I'm not talking crap)...
Just to avoid confusion - the 5+ minutes load time used to be the first one. The later ones were shorter, around 2-2.5 mins.

Now with HSFX my initial load time is about 1:40-ish, subsequent load times about 45 secs... I can live with that!

- Guest - 12.01.2010

You have pulled my arm I must say Wink If anyone can say if they got the .303 tracers to work then I may be sold (note, may....) Wink

- fly_zo - 12.01.2010

... excuse me but changing file structure is never piece of cake !

it may seam that way to common user but to be absolutely sure everything works like it should it's very time consuming and really can be described as major "pain in the a.."

For example ...

1 for adding each new object (or object mods) you need to check out static.ini file for exact path and if it's already present in game ... or your FMB wouldn't work properly ( along with old camp. missions)

2 some of default map texture files are changed(altered) so if you have customized maps using that file ... they are all messed up

3 some cockpits have introduced new files and with that new hier.him so all mods which needs hier.him are messed up ( lots of reticles are messed ...for example : F6F's aren't compatible with mirror mod - for which i've published patch )

4 we really don't know new prs files and changes madden regarding prs /wav/plane.class interaction ... so having customized sounds is not anywhere near "peace of cake "

... i could go on whole night with this ...

reg
Z

- Trooper117 - 12.01.2010

@ Radoye..Yes mate.. I understand Smile , and I know you stated you had an elderly pc, and if it's only load times you want to improve on you would probably enjoy HSFX or the UP install.
But for people in my position with a more up to date pc, I get the feeling that I'm being held to ransom by users who simply want a faster loading time, and so the future of a unified mod package must go down that route.. But I don't I'm afraid, and judging by other members on this site there are quite a few who share the same opinion and would like to stick with the UI.. it's all about personal preference, unfortunately what suits one will not always suit the other, such is the varied nature of pc gaming..
if we all had exactly the same rigs and graphics cards it would probably be a different story however.. :wink:

- Radoye - 12.01.2010

fly_zo Wrote:... excuse me but changing file structure is never piece of cake !

it may seam that way to common user but to be absolutely sure everything works like it should it's very time consuming and really can be described as major "pain in the a.."

I am a common user and do talk from common user perspective. Which is, after all, the perspective of something like 99.99% people who fly IL-2. The "elite" 0.01% should keep that in mind - the common users don't care for most of the "elite's" problems to adjust to the new file structure.

But, HSFX mod structure is indeed the future - exactly because it offers significant advantages to the common user, and the common user will always go where the install is easier, load times are faster, more online servers are available... It's a fact of life.

So the "elite" will either have to follow suit or go the way of the dinosaurs.

- Radoye - 12.01.2010

Trooper117 Wrote:...I get the feeling that I'm being held to ransom by users who simply want a faster loading time, and so the future of a unified mod package must go down that route.. But I don't I'm afraid, and judging by other members on this site there are quite a few who share the same opinion and would like to stick with the UI.. it's all about personal preference, unfortunately what suits one will not always suit the other, such is the varied nature of pc gaming..
Yes i can see this... but as i said, the majority of common users who just want to fly without much hassle will actually decide. Because they will choose servers they fly on so that those which don't support their choice (which seems to be the HSFX-type modpacks nowadays) will soon be deserted. So they will either have to switch themselves or alternatively find something to offer that others don't have and which is so attractive to overweight the advantages of the HSFX.

But frankly, i don't know what could that be.