[WIP] - J7W1 Shinden /NewFM [project update 29/07/09] - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: [WIP] - J7W1 Shinden /NewFM [project update 29/07/09] (/showthread.php?tid=57710)

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- Ace01 - 13.01.2009

this plane was the best in pacific storm although i only produced 10 before i got nuked.but this model is coming along great!Boy this plane i heard could even outturn any varient of the zero! and 4-30mm cannons (you could use me-262 A1 cannon for it) the only thing bad was that the prop in the back gets hit a few times,inoperable engine.

oh before I forget, the plane could also hold 2 1,000lbs bombs.1 under each rack, and 6 unguided rockets for air to air work.

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- gibbage - 13.01.2009

From what I understand, only 1 prototype ever flew, and it only flew 3 times? It was never armed, and never went into production. I also dont know were your getting your info about its performance attribute and loadouts.

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- Radoye - 14.01.2009

RichardHed Wrote:

Radoye Wrote:One thing though - shouldn't the vapor come off the rear wings, and not off the canards?

Not really;
(From Wikepedia)Since the cores of vortices have a very low pressure, when the air is of high humidity, water vapour condenses to form cloud in the vortex cores, allowing wingtip vortices to be seen. This is most common on aircraft flying at high angles of attack, such as fighter aircraft in high g maneuvers

In a Canard airplane the higher AOA is comming from the canard as it moves quicker relative to the COG so it will vortix before the rear wings do

according to AERONAUTICAL RESEARCH LABS MELBOURNE "A canard above or coplanar with the wing delayed wing vortex breakdown"

One learns something new every day. Thanks for the clarification!

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- Radoye - 14.01.2009

Ace01 Wrote:t and 4-30mm cannons (you could use me-262 A1 cannon for it)

MK108 from Me-262 would not be a good match. It has almost twice the RoF of the Japanese Type 5 cannon, but also a significantly lower muzzle velocity so the ballistics are also off. The weight of shell is about the same, the Japanese is a wee bit heavier.

In layman's terms and very simplified, the German gun fires more shells in the same amount of time but each shell is less accurate and has less power than the Japanese.

MK103 wouldn't fit either, it's too powerful, but it would still be a better match than the MK108 which is way off in every aspect.

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- RealDarko - 14.01.2009

At the moment he's working on the prototype that flyed, so it will have only a MG, maybe later he will create the real combat airplane that IMHO will be very well received here.

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- caldrail - 14.01.2009

vampire_pilot Wrote:yest but the pilots followed the order, especially the home defence pilots.

in the beginning the Japanese refused to carry a chute or even a radio, because they did not need it and wanted to get rid of the weight (no armour either).
but on later stages, especially when fighting over own territory they had to carry a chute. i read it also in Saburo Sakais boook for the first time. There was an order for the pilots to carry it, although he said he didn't like it.

at some point Japan felt the loss of pilots and realized it had to have a better pilot saving program. too late obviously and I assume some fighting over this issue may have happened in high command....

but as a matter of fact, especially home defence pilots did carry a chute. Not the jumping itself was disgracing but doing so over enemy territory and become prisoner.

Whilst that may have been some pilots view, the average Japanese pilot saw himself as an aerial samurai. As such the need to bale out wouldn't have occured to them. They were thinking in terms of being the better aerial warrior in a one-on-one sense, which is why Japanese piulots preferred manoeverability above all else, and since parachute straops tended to restrict their movement in the cockpit, and since they were considered superfluous items anyway, the pilots ignored directives from their commanders concerning parachutes.

As for a pilot saving program, I find that a little odd, given the kamakazi initiative, and that says more about Japanese attitudes than anything. These men volunteered, there was no pressure, and indeed, to take part was considered an honour. They weren't dying for their country or their emperor, as is often stated, but to spend their lives as best they could. The concept is a matter of logic and samurai mindset that goes like this - A man will die anyway at some point, and if his death achieves purpose, it has meaning. If one man can sink an aircraft carrier, is that not a noble purpose?

It was therefore a logical trade. The loss of one mans life is inconsequential compared to the strategic gain his death potenially achieves, thus these men volunteered. The same selflessness existed in Japanese aviators who weren't part of the Kamakazi movement. They considered themselves better pilots than the allied opponents - they often were early on before casualties tipped the balance - and their acceptance and disdain of risk is something hard to understand in the west. The Japanese Command of course realised early on that they were losing valuable experienced pilots and therefore issued commands to wear parachutes, even though the Japanese had very little SAR for obvious reasons.

It is true that Bushido dictated a man should not surrender, and that to be captured was dishonourable. That wasn't the reason for the Japanese not wearing parachutes, because it was accepted that a Japanese should fight to the death anyway. It simply wasn't considered. After all, if a Japanese pilot baled out, he has lost his sword. Unthinkable.

Interestingly though, the guy who organised Kamakazi missions decided, once the surrender was announced, that he could not live with himself if he did not do what he had ordered his young men to. So he asked for volunteers for one last mission (this happening after Japan announced surrender to its people) and with something like a hundred or more pilots, took off to attack US ships near Japan. None of the planes were ever seen again.

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Build it - Silverback - 16.01.2009

Man that's cool, please build it

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- FZ - 16.01.2009

... just to thank you in advance ...

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- goshikisen - 16.01.2009

FZ Wrote:... just to thank you in advance ...

Ahhh... Koike Shigeo. The absolute master of scale model box art... or aviation art in general.

He painted the Ki-100 in my sig. as well.

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- FZ - 16.01.2009

:lol: ... that's for sure , man !!

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/airplane/museum/Ecl-pln2.html

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- vanir - 25.01.2009

Quote:do you know what a polygon actually is?

I got this one. They hide under bridges and eat billy goats gruff.

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- Davew - 25.01.2009

RichardHed Wrote:

Radoye Wrote:One thing though - shouldn't the vapor come off the rear wings, and not off the canards?

Not really;
(From Wikepedia)Since the cores of vortices have a very low pressure, when the air is of high humidity, water vapour condenses to form cloud in the vortex cores, allowing wingtip vortices to be seen. This is most common on aircraft flying at high angles of attack, such as fighter aircraft in high g maneuvers

In a Canard airplane the higher AOA is comming from the canard as it moves quicker relative to the COG so it will vortix before the rear wings do

according to AERONAUTICAL RESEARCH LABS MELBOURNE "A canard above or coplanar with the wing delayed wing vortex breakdown"

I'm not sure you're quite on the money there...
Tip, or trailing edge vortices are produced by the pressure differential at the wingtip - high pressure air from the underside spills over to the top of the wing... That's why you see them at high AoA, because the pressure differential is greatest so they're most commonly formed.
The pressure differential is caused through the production of lift, one factor of which is the camber on the wing.
The main wing on this aircraft has a much greater camber than the canard. Equally, since the canard isn't an all-flying surface, it won't have a different AoA relative to the main wing, so the main wing should always be more likely to produce vortices than the canard.
Also, vortices are reduced by reducing the chord of the wing, especially at the wingtips. Relative to the main wing, the chrod of the canards is much less, so the vortices from the main wing should still be bigger and stronger with lower pressure cores and therefore more likely to cause visible tip vortices.

As a practical example, I've seen Eurofighters with tip vortices from the main wing, but i can't ever remember seeing them from the canards...

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- kodama - 27.01.2009

J7W1's forward wing dosen't have function as canards.
And the forward wing was designed to get bigger CL than main wing.

Now we can use only two vortex effect, so I use this effect for forward wing.

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- OPIEMK2 - 28.01.2009

So how goes this project? This looks like it would be very fun to fly. Perhaps the cannons on the Go-229 may be a better match?

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- Radoye - 28.01.2009

OPIEMK2 Wrote:Perhaps the cannons on the Go-229 may be a better match?

the Go-229 had the same cannons as Me-262... :lol:

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