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UltraPack 2.0 or HSFX? - Printable Version

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+---- Thread: UltraPack 2.0 or HSFX? (/showthread.php?tid=67667)

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- Trooper117 - 12.01.2010

Well, I'm not one of the elite, and I'm no bleedin dinosaur either, I'm a common user who bothered his backside to get to grips with the modding system so I could manualy put all my mods in place and remove anything I didn't like or had conflicts with other mods.. Self taught and asking for help from more knowledgable users was the way forward not back, because I was sick of using self installers that altered my files and added or removed files that changed the performance of my game.. I decide what sounds I hear and at what level, not a pre packed affair that takes those options away from me.. The UI will not die or turn into some pre historic beast.. bet your life on it!

- Radoye - 12.01.2010

The funny thing - UI was in fact compiled to be exactly that, an easy to use self installer for the general crowd that couldn't be bothered to learn how to manually add mods.

And now they've found something that is even easier to install and fly!

(Personally, i know how to manually add mods, although all i care about is new planes and maps, i don't care so much about sounds or effects; what good are all those pretty textures to me if i can't run the game at high enough setting to see them anyway?)

So if you want them back to UI, you need to offer something that is unavailable with HSFX that will attract them back and make them abandon the ease of install of HSFX in exchange of having this great new thing...

- Trooper117 - 12.01.2010

The trouble is, is that all of these different versions will suit some people but not all, and for so many different reasons,... some prefer the ease and speed of loading the game, others like a version with what they consider to be the best FM, others, complete control of their modded game, and others who choose a specific version because of the pc specs or hardware they are running.. It's difficult to ever say which one is best, which one is right or wrong, because you will find many people who champion their version because its right for them.. it is a maze for sure!

- Radoye - 12.01.2010

Trooper117 Wrote:The trouble is, is that all of these different versions will suit some people but not all, and for so many different reasons,...
True, it is impossible to make everyone happy. Many have tried, all have failed.

Trooper117 Wrote:It's difficult to ever say which one is best, which one is right or wrong, because you will find many people who champion their version because its right for them.. it is a maze for sure!

The trick is not to find the "best", but rather to find a solution that will suit the most folks... Because ultimately it will be the numbers of users on the servers that will decide.

(Again, i'm an offliner so that doesn't bother me that much but for the online crowd it is the most important deciding factor bar none!)

If you're an onliner it does not matter if you have your game running what's in your opinion the absolutely best possible setup if you can't fly it online because noone else is using it (or it's the same handful of people every day - get's tired quite fast). You will have to find a way to be compatible with whatever setup is the current online standard, and to customize it as close as you're able to your liking. If not the "best", but "good enough".

- fly_zo - 12.01.2010

Radoye Wrote:
fly_zo Wrote:... excuse me but changing file structure is never piece of cake !

it may seam that way to common user but to be absolutely sure everything works like it should it's very time consuming and really can be described as major "pain in the a.."

I am a common user and do talk from common user perspective. Which is, after all, the perspective of something like 99.99% people who fly IL-2. The "elite" 0.01% should keep that in mind - the common users don't care for most of the "elite's" problems to adjust to the new file structure.

But, HSFX mod structure is indeed the future - exactly because it offers significant advantages to the common user, and the common user will always go where the install is easier, load times are faster, more online servers are available... It's a fact of life.

So the "elite" will either have to follow suit or go the way of the dinosaurs.


yeah .... common users don't care for constant changing of file structure and lack of clear list for new files so mod makers could actually make some new mods and be sure in compatibility and without conflicts

So independent mod makers are "dinosaurs" and thing of the past ? ... IL2 modding should be accessible only to mod teams which have all needed info ?

rather selfish and ungrateful IMO ... looking only from users point of view

Z

- Radoye - 12.01.2010

fly_zo Wrote:yeah .... common users don't care for constant changing of file structure and lack of clear list for new files so mod makers could actually make some new mods and be sure in compatibility and without conflicts
"Constant" changing of file structure? Oh come on! You make it sound as if the HSFX guys deliberately change it every day just to screw with you.

And i fail to see why is it impossible now to maintain a clear filelist - did you ask Chap or someone else from 242? I'm sure they maintain one.

fly_zo Wrote:So independent mod makers are "dinosaurs" and thing of the past ? ... IL2 modding should be accessible only to mod teams which have all needed info ?

rather selfish and ungrateful IMO ... looking only from users point of view

You being one of the highest (and certainly most vocal i must add) members of AAA mod team, which has recently fully integrated with HSFX, i'm rather surprised to find out you having problems to get access to necessary HSFX documentation.

And given AAA's past policies suppressing all independent (as in non-AAA sourced) modding, which you personally took very active role in, i find it quite ironic and somewhat hard to believe to see yourself now as a self-appointed champion of independent modders. :lol:

Independent modding is actually alive and well with HSFX file structure, go to SAS and check for yourself!

- fly_zo - 12.01.2010

@Rodoye....

that is exactly what happens when people which have no full knowledge about modding gets involved in such discussions .... should i draw for you all changes of mod structure in past 2 years ... beginning wih filelist.txt ... wrapper ... and so on .

And me being part of AAA staff and having access to really anything i want/need doesn't make my concern smaller .

Unlike you i'm actually trying to "protect" interests of all ... users (online /offline/average/expert) / independent modders / mod teams ... all parts of IL2 community

If only people would stop looking only from their interests PoV we could have IL2 heaven here :wink:

reg
Z

- Radoye - 12.01.2010

fly_zo Wrote:should i draw for you all changes of mod structure in past 2 years ... beginning wih filelist.txt ... wrapper ... and so on .
I am aware of these two, been here since those days, was there another change before SFS files?

I mean a real tech-based change, not a self-imposed one to reorganize files within existing mod technology (which happened a couple times here at AAA if i remember correctly).

And, the most relevant question for this discussion: was there actually such a change since switching to SFS, to warrant all this complaining now?

If anything, having the file structure fixed within the SFS archives offers greater long term stability compared to the old system...

- fly_zo - 12.01.2010

Radoye Wrote:
fly_zo Wrote:should i draw for you all changes of mod structure in past 2 years ... beginning wih filelist.txt ... wrapper ... and so on .
I am aware of these two, been here since those days, was there another change before SFS files?

I mean a real tech-based change, not a self-imposed one to reorganize files within existing mod technology (which happened a couple times here at AAA if i remember correctly).

And, the most relevant question for this discussion: was there actually such a change since switching to SFS, to warrant all this complaining now?

If anything, having the file structure fixed within the SFS archives offers greater long term stability compared to the old system...


look i don't have time to cover all aspects of modding for you here nor co-relations between class /ini files and different mod files... so you have to trust me on this .

One altered default file included in HSFX can make living hell for independent modders ( which have no full info )... cos all mods are based on default game files and if you don't know certain file has been altered whole mod creation "system" falls down.

Now, if everybody would have access to all files included in HSFX ... with published complete filelist.txt (HSFX) for SFS extractor there wouldn't be a problem but at the time being it really isn't fair .

Please, without any pretentious nor "holier than you" intentions in mind but you really aren't qualified to decide which system is better .... purely theoretical approach is not sufficient here.


reg
Z

- Radoye - 12.01.2010

fly_zo Wrote:Please, without any pretentious nor "holier than you" intentions in mind but you really aren't qualified to decide which system is better .... purely theoretical approach is not sufficient here.
OK fair point.

But then, why did AAA decided to go HSFX if it's such a slippery slope? Last time i checked, the latest AAA UI (1.2.5) was published only through HSFX.

- fly_zo - 12.01.2010

Radoye Wrote:
fly_zo Wrote:Please, without any pretentious nor "holier than you" intentions in mind but you really aren't qualified to decide which system is better .... purely theoretical approach is not sufficient here.
OK fair point.

But then, why did AAA decided to go HSFX if it's such a slippery slope? Last time i checked, the latest AAA UI (1.2.5) was published only through HSFX.

Because unification was requested and we kept our word , de-branded AAA UI and moved to independent/neutral pack !

don't get me wrong here ... i support HSFX ... i just want HSFX filelist.txt for SFS extractor to be publicly available so independent modders have same /fair chance .

Z

- Radoye - 12.01.2010

fly_zo Wrote:i just want HSFX filelist.txt for SFS extractor to be publicly available so independent modders have same /fair chance .
Sure, that would be most useful for everyone involved! Smile

- fly_zo - 12.01.2010

Radoye Wrote:
fly_zo Wrote:i just want HSFX filelist.txt for SFS extractor to be publicly available so independent modders have same /fair chance .
Sure, that would be most useful for everyone involved! Smile

that's all i'm asking ...

unification and fair chance for all ... no locked mods /default files

reg
Z

- Bearcat - 12.01.2010

philip.ed Wrote:Can someone please gve me a good reason why anyone is in such a rush they can't wait 2 minutes (my loading time is roughly that) to wait for a modded version of il-2 using the original mod strcuture? I'm just curious, as I am happy to wait that time if it means having a version of Il-2 where I an get every mod running together without conflicts.

Sure... if I am in a coop by the time I load I either have to fly blue or fly a bomber.. Not good in 99th coops with me being the CO & all..not only that... the stock sim lopads in about.... 20 seconds.. For me 35 works. If YOU dont mind waiting 2.5 minutes for your sim to load.. then that is ewntirely up to you.. but I prefer to not wait that long...

- Guest - 13.01.2010

Of course, it makes sense in that sense if you play online. I am purely an offliner, so loding the game does't really bother me. If it meant I had shorter loading times in game then maybe I'd appreciate it more.