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MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a - Printable Version

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Re: - jimdigris - 11.10.2010

J99Eingehirner Wrote:J
As a matter of fact, the Americans had exactly three nuclear bombs at their disposal, of which one was detonated at the Nevada Test Site (Trinity). They had put billions of dollars into building these three bombs. After the war, it took them quite some time to build new ones because the uranium and plutonium weren't readily available.

And before somebody comes up with the old Germany-almost-had-a-nuclear-bomb-built-by-Heisenberg: NO. Read BOOKS about it. I recommend "Heisenberg's War". (Sorry, I'm getting tired of reading stuff like this... IF you want to phantasize, do it RIGHT.)

not according to General Leslie Groves in his book "now it can be told". He says they were ready to deliver a third bomb 14 days after the deployment of fatman, and 1 every two to three weeks afterwards. I have also read Heisenberg's War, Heisenberg' himself said they werent even close and it was deliberate action by scientists that slowed them down. In another book I read they had bugged the captured scientists room and when they learnt of Hiroshima Heisenberg' put them to the task of determining how they achieved it. In 48 hours they had a couple of crucial calculations worked out, and a crude plan for a gun type ie U235 weapon, without any other info avaailble to them.

Re: - wayno77 - 24.10.2010

[quote=by that time the Ta183 would have been in production (as close it came to becoming a reality :)[/quote]
Just for S & G's have a look at this....
[Image: 2gt1y6d.jpg]

Re: Re: - Guest - 24.10.2010

wayno77 Wrote:
by that time the Ta183 would have been in production (as close it came to becoming a reality :)
Just for S & G's have a look at this....
[img Wrote:http://i53.tinypic.com/2gt1y6d.jpg[/img]

So that's what Hitler spent the war effort on....

Re: MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a - Murph - 24.10.2010

Except in Il2 world with it's special physics, the TA 183 couldn't have flown. Post war tests on the airframe proved that the tail would come off, among other problems.

Re: MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a - Guest - 24.10.2010

Murph Wrote:Except in Il2 world with it's special physics, the TA 183 couldn't have flown. Post war tests on the airframe proved that the tail would come off, among other problems.

It could have flown, just not at such high speeds, and that tail design wasn't the only one they were using, they had a more conventional variant aswell as a rather completely shapely redisigned Ta-183 that was longer and looked more like the F-86 or MiG-15/17 to some degree.

http://www.luft46.com/fw/ta183-ii.html

Re: MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a - KG64_Cnopicilin - 26.10.2010

I must say that ace~of~aces is the best flame war starter around...

Re: MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a - RedChico - 26.10.2010

KG64_Cnopicilin Wrote:I must say that ace~of~aces is the best flame war starter around...

And you're the best forum spammer :mrgreen:

Re: MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a - Murph - 26.10.2010

Even if the design itself was satisfactory, it takes years to get from a drawing to full production under the best of conditions. ME262 development was started near the beginning of the war and only a handful were ever serviceable at one time.
German production problems have already been addressed earlier in this thread. Add to that the fact that they were exterminating their work force at a very high rate and had problems with sabotage.
Allied planes were built by people who were very conscious of the fact that a husband, son or father of those building them could be betting his life on their workmanship.
German planes very often very well designed and engineered, but they were largely built by people who were being systematically starved and worked to death at a very high rate, in many cases just weeks from joining the assembly line to going in the ovens. This is not work force that is going to care about quality, to say the least.

Re: MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a - ACE-OF-ACES - 26.10.2010

KG64_Cnopicilin Wrote:I must say that the FACTS is the best flame war starter around...
Fixxed that for ya Wink

Re: MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a - KG64_Cnopicilin - 26.10.2010

RedChico Wrote:
KG64_Cnopicilin Wrote:I must say that ace~of~aces is the best flame war starter around...

And you're the best forum spammer :mrgreen:
Thanks! We're all good in something Smile

Re: MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a - Storebror - 26.10.2010

I think for the outcome of WWII it was basically unimportant whatever german engineers squeezed out of their brains in the last 1 or 2 years.
The only reason why, if at all, the allies were concerned about the german early jets was the fact that either if they were bombers/recons, they were extremely hard to catch by allied fighters, or if they were fighters, they could pretty well engage at the allied bombers' altitudes, where they've been ruling the skies before due to the germans being unable to produce highly efficient turbocharged piston engines.

Other than that, expected production numbers, quality, early stage problems etc. pp. have been discussed extensively in this thread and we all know what happened in RL, it's absolutely pointless to dream of german jets ruling 1946's skies (as it is for any other late war axis A/C). If ever they would have been there for months or even years onwards, they would have been vastly outnumbered by allied jets, even if those wouldn't have been ahead technologically.

Just my 2 cents (call it flaming, spamming, whatever you like, whoever you are :roll: )

Best regards - Mike

Re: MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a - RedChico - 26.10.2010

ACE-OF-ACES Wrote:
KG64_Cnopicilin Wrote:I must say that the FACTS is the best flame war starter around...
Fixxed that for ya Wink

Like comparing P-51D-25 (IL2) Vs. P-51D-30 (real) like you did.

Or like comparing a Mclaren from the beginning of the current F1 season with the one they have now. Same model, yes, but diferent details.

On topic:
i'll repeat, Mig 9 would win, on a gun battle dogfight, one on one.
Just look at the wing geometry, its a fact back swept wings have less lift capability than a "similar" straight/elliptical wings.
Oh, and weight too.

Re: MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a - ACE-OF-ACES - 26.10.2010

RedChico Wrote:Like comparing P-51D-25 (IL2) Vs. P-51D-30 (real) like you did.
Yes just like the FACTS I used when comparing P-51D-25 (IL2) Vs. P-51D-30 (real) like I did.

RedChico Wrote:Or like comparing a Mclaren from the beginning of the current F1 season with the one they have now. Same model, yes, but diferent details.
Ah..?

Ya lost me there

RedChico Wrote:On topic:
i'll repeat, Mig 9 would win, on a gun battle dogfight, one on one.
Well..

Ill still think Chuck Yeager said it best when he said "it is the man not the machine"

But I do agree the MiG9 would require less of a man advantage in that imho it is a better plane

RedChico Wrote:Just look at the wing geometry, its a fact back swept wings have less lift capability than a "similar" straight/elliptical wings.
Oh, and weight too.
Depends on what your definition of 'similar' is

Re: MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a - Fireskull - 26.10.2010

:|







Fireskull Smile

Re: MiG-9FS vs. Me-262A-1a - RedChico - 27.10.2010

ACE-OF-ACES Wrote:
RedChico Wrote:Like comparing P-51D-25 (IL2) Vs. P-51D-30 (real) like you did.
Yes just like the FACTS I used when comparing P-51D-25 (IL2) Vs. P-51D-30 (real) like I did.

RedChico Wrote:Or like comparing a Mclaren from the beginning of the current F1 season with the one they have now. Same model, yes, but diferent details.
Ah..?

Ya lost me there

Ahahah, i see you'll never understand.