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AI... - Printable Version

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AI... - Dornil - 18.12.2007

Hi everyone!
The question is - is it possible to improve AI somehow? Or at least replaced it with the one we had prior to 4.00 version?

- FANATIC MODDER - 18.12.2007

That's an excellent request. I wish that someone would have been able to do so, I am sorry that I don't have the skills to do such a thing myself.
Question: Why do you think that the AI was better before the 4.00 version?

- lowfighter - 18.12.2007

It's a problem because people don't agree about the AI. I am for example of a different opinnion, I'd like AI behaving like in 4.03, (or even in a certain 4.0 beta,01 or 02 I don't remember). Participated in many disucissions on Ubi about AI, and I can tell there's a lot of divergence about what should the AI be like, what is wrong with them, what shall be improved etc etc. There are a couple of features which are patch-independent, like the AI seeing all directions, where everybody agrees though it would be great to change. But I think it would require a lot iof work, or maybe imposible...

- Guest - 18.12.2007

lowfighter Wrote:It's a problem because people don't agree about the AI. I am for example of a different opinnion, I'd like AI behaving like in 4.03, (or even in a certain 4.0 beta,01 or 02 I don't remember). Participated in many disucissions on Ubi about AI, and I can tell there's a lot of divergence about what should the AI be like, what is wrong with them, what shall be improved etc etc. There are a couple of features which are patch-independent, like the AI seeing all directions, where everybody agrees though it would be great to change. But I think it would require a lot iof work, or maybe imposible...

Impossible? I hope no..Smile I agree with you low; A.I. was way better before 4.03, with the introduction of the supposed "beta A.I. for BoB.." and after this never changed sadly! a.i. with "player F.M." is a bad beta in my opinion ..but as ever in the world people (Oleg+Oleg team in this situation..) who make mistakes very rarely go back to clean their errors ..sadly again.. I hope this great Mod team will one day make justice of all those planes who start to climb and evade at 7.000mt. with a 1940's plane as you into a ckpit of 1945 one...... 8)

- Dornil - 18.12.2007

Quote:Question: Why do you think that the AI was better before the 4.00 version?
Because back then AI was capable in turnfights and sometimes it was difficult to shoot him down. The difference of AI and player flight characteristics of the same aircraft was not so noticeable as it is now. In 4.08 I can easily outturn I-16 in a 109, before 4.00 it was not so possible. Current AI is good only at running, and player cannot outrun AI even in a faster plane.
Anyway, with previous AI offline was much more interesting.

- lowfighter - 18.12.2007

Well in this respect the AI are NOW (in contrast to pre 4.x AI) more realistic than we, the players hehe. We turn to much generally, and that's no wonder, there's no pilot fatigue modelled here so we can just turn as much as we please. If that was implemented, we would be more careful about turning, otherwise we would die too often. If you watch tracks with il2 dogfights and then if you watch real WWII footage you'll notice the maner of flying was much milder in real life than what we're used to do in the game. Oleg said he will implement pilot fatigue in BoB, and made me happy with that statement...


Dornil Wrote:
Quote:Question: Why do you think that the AI was better before the 4.00 version?
Because back then AI was capable in turnfights and sometimes it was difficult to shoot him down. The difference of AI and player flight characteristics of the same aircraft was not so noticeable as it is now. In 4.08 I can easily outturn I-16 in a 109, before 4.00 it was not so possible. Current AI is good only at running, and player cannot outrun AI even in a faster plane.
Anyway, with previous AI offline was much more interesting.


- lowfighter - 18.12.2007

falco Wrote:I agree with you low; A.I. was way better before 4.03, with the introduction of the supposed "beta A.I. for BoB.." )

That was an incredible moment for me, setting some dogfight missions with that beta to check the AI. First time in il2 the AI looked acting like humans (with little hesitations and little flying errors you see so often with humans etc etc etc) and not machines, I was so happy! Big Grin

- Dornil - 18.12.2007

Quote: If you watch tracks with il2 dogfights and then if you watch real WWII footage you'll notice the maner of flying was much milder in real life than what we're used to do in the game.
With that I am totally agree with you, Targetware gives us perfect example, how dogfighting in WW2 flight sim should look like. But in Il-2's offline AI should have abilities similar to those that player has. Not depending on realism level.
Quote:First time in il2 the AI looked acting like humans (with little hesitations and little flying errors you see so often with humans etc etc etc) and not machines
Are you talking about the current 4.08 AI?? Because today AI behaves totally inhumane - it never makes such mistakes as getting into spin, but usually goes down after getting some holes in the wing (not trying to bail out BTW), when he's got 6 his only action is - steep climbing or just running (even though he is maneuvering he loses no speed during that). If you come closer - he does split-s, even closer - scissors. That's all! No other actions from AI!

- lowfighter - 18.12.2007

It is a problem as we see: create AI which match the player abilities or create AI which match real life pilot abilities. In second case which I prefer I simply restrict as much as I can my flying: no hard turns etc. There was a time when I also reduced my joystick maximum inputs to maybe 60%...

To second, I was talking not about current version but about a certain beta, 4.01 beta or 4.02 beta.
About AI spinning, that's interesting, I've seen only once an unharmed AI spinning, must have been 1.2 or something, that was fabulous, he was climbing and close to stall, I pressed the trigger although he wasn't really in the gunsight (I was also close to stall hehe, so I couldn't make that small correction needed), he got scared and spun. Harmed AIs, those I've seen spinning regularly up to now, trying to do something and getting into a spin.



Dornil Wrote:
Quote: If you watch tracks with il2 dogfights and then if you watch real WWII footage you'll notice the maner of flying was much milder in real life than what we're used to do in the game.
With that I am totally agree with you, Targetware gives us perfect example, how dogfighting in WW2 flight sim should look like. But in Il-2's offline AI should have abilities similar to those that player has. Not depending on realism level.
Quote:First time in il2 the AI looked acting like humans (with little hesitations and little flying errors you see so often with humans etc etc etc) and not machines
Are you talking about the current 4.08 AI?? Because today AI behaves totally inhumane - it never makes such mistakes as getting into spin, but usually goes down after getting some holes in the wing (not trying to bail out BTW), when he's got 6 his only action is - steep climbing or just running (even though he is maneuvering he loses no speed during that). If you come closer - he does split-s, even closer - scissors. That's all! No other actions from AI!


- Metatron - 18.12.2007

There is one thing I see improved in the more recent AI: I remember in the original sturmovik, all the ai did was turn.

I remember very clearly how Bf-109s were hardly able to shoot any La-5Fns down cause all they did was try to turn with them.

Now at least they use climb and dive tactics when their aircraft is better suited to this type of maneuver.

- Metatron - 18.12.2007

Question: I've noticed that aircraft made flyable by the AAA guys such as the A5M do not have problems with negative g maneuvers like their contemporaries (I-16,Hurricane,Gladiator,Fiat)

Does this mean that this plane has fuel injection? Or does the AI not have the same problems a human player has? If so, this would be nice to incorporate, though I have my doubts that it is possible.

- RAF_Magpie - 18.12.2007

Metatron Wrote:Question: I've noticed that aircraft made flyable by the AAA guys such as the A5M do not have problems with negative g maneuvers like their contemporaries (I-16,Hurricane,Gladiator,Fiat)

Take up the Hs-129, or even the new Me-323, and put your nose down... As for the A5M - I cannot say yay or nay about that, because I cannot remember.

- Metatron - 18.12.2007

Interesting... I must be mistaken then.

- lowfighter - 19.12.2007

Absolutely agree, that was one nice improvement of Oleg & co. Big Grin

Metatron Wrote:There is one thing I see improved in the more recent AI: I remember in the original sturmovik, all the ai did was turn.

I remember very clearly how Bf-109s were hardly able to shoot any La-5Fns down cause all they did was try to turn with them.

Now at least they use climb and dive tactics when their aircraft is better suited to this type of maneuver.


- ojcar - 19.12.2007

The old AI were turning in planes not suitable to turning....BAD
The new AI is booming and zooming in planes not suitable to zooming and booming....BAD.
But the real problem is the AI cheats in overheating and visibility and other things. They aren't never surprised by you, simply firewall the throttle and climbing forever. They are too aggressive too, pursuiting you forever and they fight outnumbered instead escaping. And there are the sniper gunners in bombers (and some fighters) too...
But in all others sims I have played is the same story...The AI is never much I, but this sim is better than others in AI.