Open Information Suggestion - Printable Version
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+---- Thread: Open Information Suggestion (/showthread.php?tid=53195)
+- All-Aircraft-Simulations (https://allaircraftsimulations.com)
+-- Forum: IL2 MODS Download & Discussion (https://allaircraftsimulations.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=267)
+--- Forum: IL-2 4.09m (https://allaircraftsimulations.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=348)
+---- Forum: IL2 MODS Discussion Section 4.09m (https://allaircraftsimulations.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=292)
+---- Thread: Open Information Suggestion (/showthread.php?tid=53195)
Open Information Suggestion - spud - 27.03.2008
New planes can now be added, woot! Things like fire extinguishers are in the pipes, double woot!
One thing I have not been seeing, however, is what the exact values used have been. I really think that openness in this respect is required to avoid the appearence of making superplanes, etc. It is also just nice to know how the plane actually stands in values used compared to other aircraft as a reality check.
For example, when a new plane is added, I think that the engine used, as well as all the FM values should be included in a readme of some kind. It's not like knowing what values are used makes it easy to cheat, only a few can mess with stuff right now from a skill level POV, anyway, and a cheat would be able to regardless. This is for everyone else to be aware of where the model stands exactly compared to the other planes.
This is the oppsoite of what we had before where we were simply told "gun is perfect, be sure!" only to later find out that the japanese planes are using german guns, etc.
I think we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.
tater
- Trooper117 - 27.03.2008
Not needed mate.. Do you remember not long ago when we had posters from other sites coming on here stating that the site had to put up statements that this site would only act properly when making new mods that weren't interfering with FM/DM etc..
I found that quite demeaning, that people didn't take it as read from the start that the modders were not out to create cheats, but further enhance the game for all concerned..
It should be accepted that the guys on here are not trying to create uber aircraft, and they shouldn't have to prove it either.
- spud - 27.03.2008
You entirely miss the point.
Before, we'd get a plane in a new patch, and we test it, and we KNOW it's wrong, but what can we do, it's a black box. Right now, anyone can theoretically open up a new plane and read the FM data, but why should we have to? It should be OPEN for any that want to try and understand. Not the "black box" aspects, many of us simply don;t have the time. The DATA, though, would be useful.
Post the fmd file (plain text), for example.
Having the changes from a "stock" plane remarked will also help people working on new FMs in the future as well. It might be discovered that there is an interaction between something in a class file and the fmd data, like the fmd value is used if something is set to -1 somewhere, otherwise it is overridden by the value in the class, etc.
Having the FM stuff entirely a black box means that all that is learned about it is only known by 1 or 2 people, everyone else wanting to pitch in is either SOL, or they have to start from scratch and reinvent the wheel.
tater
- Trooper117 - 27.03.2008
Sorry if I missed the point...
Quote:I think we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.
It's just that I thought the guys here were already matching that remark.
But I get your drift..
- spud - 27.03.2008
No, I think the standards of mod PRODUCTION are indeed very high here.
My point was to hold ourselves to a higher standard of dissembling information. READMEs with accurate lists of what values were used for added FM/DM/weapons stuff so everyone knows what's under the hood.
Oleg, et al, simply say it's right, and even if it isn't, it's encrypted, we'll never know. Then we manage to read it and find out all the plain made up stuff hiding in the background.
We should be more open with information is all.
Post the various speeds fed into the engine, then even remark them as a help to other modders.
For example, say the VmaxH value is 610 at 3500m. The guy doing the FM might have been well aware that it should really be 602 at 3600m, but in his work on FMs, he found out that the values in the fmd file are not literal, they need to be corrected for the plane to ACTUALLY make 602 at 3600m.
It's important to realize that files are shared. So a mod that fixes something (like adding an extinguisher to an engine's emd file) can have an affect that was unintended.
You add X extinguisher shots to a certain engine used on a heavy bomber. As it turns out, the same engine was used on some other plane you wish to build. You build it, and the right engine is used (nice, since the engine is already in the game!). What you don;t realize is that when you use the extinguisher mod, you add them to the new plane, and it turns out the new plane had no such equipment.
A the only way to know would be to extract the extinguisher mod apart, and read the files. If a changelog existed, you could simply read it and see... then you'd know you needed to make a new engine, too.
tater