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new Computer suggestions help - nearmiss - 28.04.2008

I'm getting ready to build a new computer.

I'm think Quad Processor Intel

probably using 2 Nvidia VC SLI

-----------------------------------------------

Basically... I would appreciate helpful suggestions - Mobo - Processor and ram memory.

I have drives, 750W PSU, 24" LCD monitor and peripheral stuff.

Re: new Computer suggestions help - GentleKiller - 28.04.2008

nearmiss Wrote:I'm getting ready to build a new computer.

I'm think Quad Processor Intel

probably using 2 Nvidia VC SLI

-----------------------------------------------

Basically... I would appreciate helpful suggestions - Mobo - Processor and ram memory.

I have drives, 750W PSU, 24" LCD monitor and peripheral stuff.

what is your budget ceiling?
i suggest that you can get 9600gt SLI is what you really need for a great price, or even 8800gt

Re: new Computer suggestions help - nearmiss - 28.04.2008

GentleKiller Wrote:
nearmiss Wrote:I'm getting ready to build a new computer.

I'm think Quad Processor Intel

probably using 2 Nvidia VC SLI

-----------------------------------------------

Basically... I would appreciate helpful suggestions - Mobo - Processor and ram memory.

I have drives, 750W PSU, 24" LCD monitor and peripheral stuff.

what is your budget ceiling?
i suggest that you can get 9600gt SLI is what you really need for a great price, or even 8800gt

I looked at the 9600 and the price is right at tiger direct, so I agree with you

- BigSilverHotdog - 28.04.2008

No, I purchased 9600 GTs in SLI and they are not worth it. Absolutely not worth it. One 9600 GT is almost worth the price until you consider the 8800 GS which costs LESS than the 9600 GT and is quite a bit faster. Read up about it the thing is a massive overclocker (the EVGA one, not the XFX one). All things considered the 8800 GT (the g92 core revision) is the best card available. Do not bother with SLI, it is absolutely not worth it. I've owned 3 SLI setups, they all sucked. Pointless, the only time you ever get framerate increases is when you've already got high FPS, they rarely ever help when you really need the extra help. There are tech articles about this, as well.

For CPU definitely Intel's Core2Quad Q6600 2.4ghz. By far the best cpu on the market for just about everyone and every game you can imagine. Even games that don't take advantage of multiple cores (like il2) will love the insane clock speed you can get with this thing. 3.0-3.2ghz is EASY to get without much fuss or bother and the thing is just incredibly fast.

For motherboard I recommend the ABIT IP35-E if you are on a budget or the ABIT IP35-PRO if you have enough to get the best. I've used Q6600 boards from EVGA, MSI, and Gigabyte, and none of them come close to the quality of ABIT's IP35 series. Avoid the new ABIT IP35-V (I think thats the designation, it replaced the IP35-E at newegg recently) and hit ebay if you want the IP35-E. If for some strange reason you are averse to abit the next suggestion would be the Gigabyte DS3L. Avoid SLI boards, I can't stress this enough. My biggest mistake was trying to go SLI. Fortunately I got resale value of my stuff so i didn't lose anything in the deal except a lot of time.

For the Q6600 you need a new power supply as well. Make sure it has an 8PIN dual 12v connector and is at least 500-600 watts, minimum. Adapters to give you the required motherboard interface 8 pin connector are an ABSOLUTE NO-NO. If it doesn't fry your system immediately it will eventually. You have been warned.

For Q6600 cooling your best options are the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro (easy to install, great temps, dynamic fan that works very well, exhaust flow design to push hot air directly to your back case fan and out, keeping temps in case very low), Tuniq Tower, or ThermalRight 120 (any specific 120 is fine).

Edit: Memory. Testing has shown that DDR speeds exceeding around 666 are totally minimal. Even 533 is within 5-10 percent as fast as 1066. My recommendation is GSKILL, PATRIOT, KINGSTON, GEIL, CORSAIR, etc, DDR2 800. This way you can set the memory to 1:1 with the FSB of the mobo for the cpu at 8 or 9x multiplier depending how much you want from your cpu (8x yielding 3.2ghz and 9x yielding 3.6). This will give you an insanely fast setup with 400mhz FSB on the motherboard and I can personally attest that both the IP35-E and IP35-PRO can easily hit 400 without even changing the voltages for the mobo. CPU will require a small voltage bump (usually) to hit 3.2 but not too much.

- nearmiss - 28.04.2008

I just bought a tagan 700W power supply maybe a month old. I bought it a MicroCenter 180.00

PSU: ABS Tagan ITZ/BZ 700W highPerf PS

http://microcenter.com/single_product_r ... id=0277018

It has powercables that come apart for my current board, but extra connectors that fit together to form more connections on a larger board connector.

If you would review the spec on it. I sure would hate to have to replace that puppy as well.

All Icould see was heat heat and more heat SLI. Thats good information on the VC for sure.

Is this the Mobo?

http://microcenter.com/single_product_r ... id=0261902

I noticed tiger direct has some kind of extra poop EVGA card.

Here is another MC link to the 8800GT cards are any of these the VC you are thinking about

http://microcenter.com/search/search_re ... ord=8800gt

I prefer to find as much stuff local as I can, just because returns are so much easier and of course faster.

- BigSilverHotdog - 29.04.2008

That modular power supply should be fine. Here is a picture of the connector you must have (note the specific shapes of all 8 pins, this will prevent you from doing it wrong). This connector MUST COME FROM THE POWER SUPPLY DIRECTLY. You cannot "split" into this connector from a 4 pin molex. Adapters exist for this, simply because some people don't care to take the risk (or know their system is low enough draw).

http://www.nordichardware.se/skrivelser ... .8-pin.jpg

The IP-35 PRO is indeed the correct motherboard. It is the cream of the crop, the top of the line, absolutely the best motherboard you can buy for the Q6600. I should know, I've used a bunch of them, a few much more expensive than it. It is the best, and though some might disagree on that point, few will argue against it being in the top 3. Remember, THIS MOTHERBOARD IS NOT SLI. The 2nd PCIExpress slot is 4x, not 16x, and it does not draw enough power to supply any modern GPU. I note this to make sure you are up to speed with me, because I spoke earlier of the reasons to not go the SLI route. The IP35-PRO also has a widespread user base and tons of online tech support articles. Check out this link:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/sho ... ?p=2236754

This is the video card you want, factory overclocked with warranty so you never have to overclock it to get the maximum performance. And if it ever breaks, EVGA is -EXCELLENT- on customer service and RMAs. One of the best companies I've ever seen in this area. Their turnaround time is incredible and they even return rebate checks within 1-2 weeks almost every time. That is unheard of. I bought a similar card, also factory OC, from MSI. I bought it because it was much cheaper (with a rebate) than the EVGA equivalent at the time, had a very nice custom zalman style cooler, and it came with the game "The Witcher" which I adore. No rebate from MSI and its been almost 7 weeks now. Cry It does do 700 core and 1000 memory, however. Confusedhock:

http://microcenter.com/single_product_r ... id=0276270

- stansdds - 29.04.2008

Lemme throw in my dos centavos.

CPU: Quad core is fine, but not necessary at this time as dual core is more than enough for most home users. If you plan to overclock, plan on buying a really good CPU cooler. Heck, you might want to invest in a better cooler just to keep the CPU cool at stock speeds as heat is what kills electronic components.

SLI? Usually not worth the cost, driver headache, energy consumption, and heat unless you run really high resolutions (beyond 1600 x XXXX). I recommend the fastest single card solution that you can find/afford and a factory overclocked 8800GT is an excellent choice.

RAM: There still seems to be very little gain in purchasing anything beyond DDR2-800. The higher clocking RAM is more expensive and may be less stable. The slight gain in performance does not justify the extra expense and I wonder if some these motherboard failures I'm reading about are the result of running higher speed RAM (which requires more voltage which equals more heat).

- nearmiss - 29.04.2008

BigSilverHotdog Wrote:That modular power supply should be fine. Here is a picture of the connector you must have (note the specific shapes of all 8 pins, this will prevent you from doing it wrong). This connector MUST COME FROM THE POWER SUPPLY DIRECTLY. You cannot "split" into this connector from a 4 pin molex. Adapters exist for this, simply because some people don't care to take the risk (or know their system is low enough draw).

http://www.nordichardware.se/skrivelser ... .8-pin.jpg

--------------------------- The PSU has that type connectors... whew

The IP-35 PRO is indeed the correct motherboard. It is the cream of the crop, the top of the line, absolutely the best motherboard you can buy for the Q6600. I should know, I've used a bunch of them, a few much more expensive than it. It is the best, and though some might disagree on that point, few will argue against it being in the top 3. Remember, THIS MOTHERBOARD IS NOT SLI. The 2nd PCIExpress slot is 4x, not 16x, and it does not draw enough power to supply any modern GPU. I note this to make sure you are up to speed with me, because I spoke earlier of the reasons to not go the SLI route. The IP35-PRO also has a widespread user base and tons of online tech support articles. Check out this link:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/sho ... ?p=2236754

This is the video card you want, factory overclocked with warranty so you never have to overclock it to get the maximum performance. And if it ever breaks, EVGA is -EXCELLENT- on customer service and RMAs. One of the best companies I've ever seen in this area. Their turnaround time is incredible and they even return rebate checks within 1-2 weeks almost every time. That is unheard of. I bought a similar card, also factory OC, from MSI. I bought it because it was much cheaper (with a rebate) than the EVGA equivalent at the time, had a very nice custom zalman style cooler, and it came with the game "The Witcher" which I adore. No rebate from MSI and its been almost 7 weeks now. Cry It does do 700 core and 1000 memory, however. Confusedhock:

http://microcenter.com/single_product_r ... id=0276270

Thanks so much for a great shopping list. Now I'll have to get with it this morning. Looking forward to the process.

Thanks so much for all the replys and encouraging solutions.

- nearmiss - 29.04.2008

Are my eyes deceiving me or what?

I checked Fry's outpost.com and they are now priced at 259.00 for what appears to be the same thing.

http://microcenter.com/single_product_r ... id=0257938

Maybe I missed something, but this does appear to be the Q6600. Am I wrong?

- GentleKiller - 29.04.2008

try using www.newegg.com
i think they are the best site around, very good customer service, price, and ease of navigation
honestly i am using the EVGA nvidia 8800GTS with G92 and it is just a wonderful card you can own
this card has more pixels/pipelines than the 8800gt, for only just 20 bucks more

i use INTEL C2D E8400 at 3.0GHZ, the best dual core around right now for 210 bucks

remember the higher clocked processors work better for gaming, the more cores you have the better for multithereading applications
and since the IL2 is only utilized only on one core, it does matter, but when the new BOB comes out it should have 2 core utilization

- BigSilverHotdog - 29.04.2008

1) The Q6600 is going through a "fire sale" period because it is the hottest (pun definitely intended) processor on the market. I bought my wife's at Outpost.com 2 weeks ago when they had one of their sales -- 179.99 -- As long as you see Q6600, you are good to go.

2) The 8800GTS 512 is an excellent choice as well, I'm partial to the 8800 GT because I do not feel the G92 GTS 512 offers enough of a significant increase in performance. My mate bought 2 of them and my rig is every bit as fast as his in games, not in benchmarks, but in actual gameplay situations. I played Crysis through from front to back (very disappointing game, from a gameplay and story perspective) with all settings on high with a single 8800 GT OC. The framerate rarely went under 15-20 which is quite playable in Crysis as they make good use of motion blur, and most of the time it was well over 30. Plus, when I purchased my 8800 GT the 8800 GTS 512 was 70 dollars more. If the price is the same, obviously the 8800 GTS 512 is superior.

3) No current video card can take advantage of more than about 3.2ghz -- There have been many debates about C2D vs C2Q and this is the point on which the discussion always ends. Buying a C2D that can clock 3.8 is irrelevent because when a new card comes out that can take advantage of those extra clocks, the quad will still be faster because, as we speak, dozens if not hundreds of games are being designed to use multiple cores. And the C2Q will be the best CPU of this generation for every one of those games. Having a 4 lane highway is just inherently much higher capacity than having a 2 lane, even if the 4 lane has a slightly lower speed limit.

Edit: I have yet to personally see a Q6600 that won't do 3.2 right out of the box with very little hassle. In fact, we got all of ours here locally to do 3.6 but we don't like how hot they run with air cooling. If I want 3.6-4ghz in the future I will switch to wc. Big Grin

- nearmiss - 30.04.2008

BigSilverHotdog Wrote:1) The Q6600 is going through a "fire sale" period because it is the hottest (pun definitely intended) processor on the market. I bought my wife's at Outpost.com 2 weeks ago when they had one of their sales -- 179.99 -- As long as you see Q6600, you are good to go.

2) The 8800GTS 512 is an excellent choice as well, I'm partial to the 8800 GT because I do not feel the G92 GTS 512 offers enough of a significant increase in performance. My mate bought 2 of them and my rig is every bit as fast as his in games, not in benchmarks, but in actual gameplay situations. I played Crysis through from front to back (very disappointing game, from a gameplay and story perspective) with all settings on high with a single 8800 GT OC. The framerate rarely went under 15-20 which is quite playable in Crysis as they make good use of motion blur, and most of the time it was well over 30. Plus, when I purchased my 8800 GT the 8800 GTS 512 was 70 dollars more. If the price is the same, obviously the 8800 GTS 512 is superior.

3) No current video card can take advantage of more than about 3.2ghz -- There have been many debates about C2D vs C2Q and this is the point on which the discussion always ends. Buying a C2D that can clock 3.8 is irrelevent because when a new card comes out that can take advantage of those extra clocks, the quad will still be faster because, as we speak, dozens if not hundreds of games are being designed to use multiple cores. And the C2Q will be the best CPU of this generation for every one of those games. Having a 4 lane highway is just inherently much higher capacity than having a 2 lane, even if the 4 lane has a slightly lower speed limit.

Edit: I have yet to personally see a Q6600 that won't do 3.2 right out of the box with very little hassle. In fact, we got all of ours here locally to do 3.6 but we don't like how hot they run with air cooling. If I want 3.6-4ghz in the future I will switch to wc. Big Grin

The Abit Mobo you recommend doesn't appear to have a PCI-E 2.0 - the EVGA 8000 GTS 512M video card calls for a PCI-E 2.0. WOuld a 2.0 VC work in a PCI-E 1.0 slot?

Also, knowing what you know about the system would you think it better to go to another Mobo?

If so, what do you recommend as a best choice Motherboard. You did mention gigabyte as a good choice, but nothing specific.

Also, I found I can acquire the E8400 3.10GH Intel processor for the same amount of money as the Q6600.

There recommendations by gentle killer effectively are so close in price (like less that 20.00). Naturally, I'd like to build the most uptodate (competent) system for the money.

I do, however respect your opinon on this or I wouldn't have asked. So, I'm going to follow your guidelines as close as possible. I really don't want a repeat of my previous misadventures.

Thanks for your input

--------------------------------------------------------------
Psssst I did buy the parts you recommended.

iNTEL Q6600
EVGA 8800GT 512M PCI-E
Corsair Ram XMS2 4GB PC6400 DDR2
Abit Mobo IP-35 PRO

I bought the above at Microcenter. The did not have the Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro 7
Maybe you could look at the http://www.Microcenter.com site and see a fan you would recommend.

I have NOT taken any of the system components out of their seales boxes. I can probably exchange them easily, if you think of a better solution you would recommend.

---------------------------------

- BigSilverHotdog - 30.04.2008

PCIEXPRESS is almost always backwards compatible. A 2.0 card will almost always work the same on a 1.0, 1.0a, or 1.1 motherboard. At this point there is no speed difference either. The specification has to do with lane speed but we are quite a long, long way ahead of the curve here. PCIEXPRESS 16x (in any version 1.0-3.0) will not likely be used to its full extent for 4-6 or more years. A huge 16 lane highway in the countryside, essentially.

The card doesn't "call for" PCIE 2.0 it is what it says on the box because higher numbers sell better. My card had 2.0 on the box as well, as did my wife's, and a bunch of people in my squad. Nobody has had trouble with their 8800 series card on any PCIExpress motherboard even extremely old 1.0 ones like a certain Gigabyte Nforce4 SLI creation I could mention. They run the same. There may be a rare card here and there that specifically refuses to work on anything less than 2.0, but I've yet to see one.

Link to Freezer 7 Pro:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0253412

In case they just didn't have it in stock here is an even better product but you must have a large (width) case for it to fit as it is TALL:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0264587

I really recommend the AC Freezer 7 Pro over all others because it is inexpensive, very good quality, VERY easy to install, and very reliable. The duct design makes sure the hottest air in the case, the air vented from the CPU, goes right out the back into your exhaust fan.

You look set to me after you get a cooler. Should be a screamin' machine, essentially identical to mine. Any build questions or problems feel free to ask.

Edit: Check the spec sheet here for the 8800 GT SSC by EVGA, at no point that I can see do they even mention PCIE2.0, except to say that the card "supports" it -- http://www.evga.com/products/pdf/512-P3-N806-AR.pdf

- GentleKiller - 30.04.2008

yes i am agreeing about the C2Q, silver. i wonder what the computers are going to be like in 6 years Confusedhock:

- BigSilverHotdog - 30.04.2008

It mostly depends on whether world war iii starts this year or next year.