Getting AI to back off on thier own? - Printable Version
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+---- Thread: Getting AI to back off on thier own? (/showthread.php?tid=57136)
Getting AI to back off on thier own? - TCFsube - 20.10.2008
Sorry if this has come up before.
I'm wondering if there's a way that the friendly AI can be made to not swoop in and pump that last few rounds into an enemy that's going down that you worked on. Thus they get the kill and not you.
Just was playing a mission (as a low rank so I had no ordering power, and it was not my flight that came in to steal anyway) and used up a good amount of ammo on an enemy. They were on fire and starting to flop over towards earth. So I veered off to find another victim, no use wasting more ammo on an obvious kill. That's when another fighter swooped in, gave it a burst, and got credited the kill. Not a huge deal but becomes annoying after awhile.
So any MODs I have not spotted that make it so the friendly AI recognizes better when an enemy plane is not worth wasting any more ammo on?
If not I can live with it. Just wondering.
- reflected - 20.10.2008
That would be great...and also something which makes the AI return to their base instead of fighting until everyone of them or us is dead...but I think it's not possible
- grppaperboy - 20.10.2008
I've hated this problem since day one of playing the game when it came out. a mod to do that would be great, plus i think a mod to give out partial kill credits would be great (and add more historical accuracy to the game). so instead of them stealing the whole kill, it would be split between teh two. also giving out damage scores for planes you bash up but still make it back to base would be cool too.
- TCFsube - 20.10.2008
Yeah when I fly as the leader I'll kind keep an eye on how we are doing and order them the return home after a certain point. Sometimes that does not help them live though either. :roll:
- eddie_brunette - 20.10.2008
I've spend more than 10 hours trying to work on an AI mod - no avail.
the AI really sux in this sim
but all my attention at the moment is to finish populating the Greece/Italy/North Africa map for DCG
edd
- pursuivant - 20.10.2008
IMO, IL2 has some of the best AI of any combat flight sim I've played - and AI modeling is the toughest part of programming any simulation. I'm not saying that it's perfect - not by a long shot - but it's pretty good.
If you have control over the planes in your flight (i.e., you are flight leader), you can (sort of) get the AI to back off by commanding them to "reform," or telling them to attack another target. If you don't have control over the AI planes, then you're out of luck. I think that's realistic - there was (and probably is) a strong tendency for fighter pilots to "fixate" on a target to their front, ignoring other targets, and to claim any target they shot at as a kill. Also, unless the flight leaders strictly enforced fire discipline and the "wing/lead" system, it was common for several pilots to attack the most obvious target simultaneously - what on-line players refer to as "shoulder shooting."
I'd actually argue that the "kill claiming" system in IL2 is crocked.
1. You always get credit for aircraft which crash far out of your sight, well behind enemy lines, which realistically you could only claim as "damaged" or "probable."
2. You always get credit for aircraft you shoot down on your own, roving behind enemy lines, with no "friendly" confirmation. In some Air Forces, you might be able to claim such kills, especially if you were flying a plane equipped with a gun camera (if it worked, if you remembered to turn it on, if it didn't run out of film . . .), but in air forces with restrictive kill claim policies, the intelligence officers would laugh at you, or just credit you with a "probable" for such kills.
3. If the rest of your squaddies cripple an enemy aircraft and you finish it off (the reverse of AI kill stealing), you get full credit for the kill, rather than having to share a partial kill. Until the program indicates that an enemy aircraft is shot down, or until another pilot claims the kill (or confirms it for another pilot), you're free to "vulch" doomed enemy aircraft.
4. The program perfectly registers kills as they happen, eliminating any possibility of overclaiming (very common, historically) or underclaiming.
5. Enemy aircraft killed by bombers aren't claimed by bomber gunners. (And bomber gunners were prone to vastly overclaim enemy aircraft shot down - since everyone in the formation shot at the same attacker).
6. You actually get individual credit for a kill, as opposed to having to split credit between every pilot in your flight (common for USN units, especially later in the war).
7. Your flight leader doesn't take credit for your kill (common among IJN and IJA units).
What I'd like to see is a system where the AI would credit shared kills, and where it would record not just kills but also different categories of damage, ranging from category I (minor) to category 4 (write-off). In combat, category 1 & 2 damage (or minor damage to just one system) would count as a "damaged" claim, while category 3 & 4 damage (major damage to one system, or minor damage to multiple systems) would count as a "probable." Damage categories would affect the time required to repair aircraft for the next sortie in capaigns.
Once you've got categories of damage and the damaged/probable/confirmed kill system in place, you could build in a system where you actually had to claim your kills as you made them, and then the AI (playing the part of debriefing officers) would allow or disallow your kills, or downgrade kills to probables, based on the claims of other fliers and observations by friendly ground units. You could then also set up historical levels of accuracy for kill claims, ranging from restrictive (e.g., Luftwaffe or USAAF) to downright fanciful (e.g., IJNAF or IJAAF).
- Hawkman - 20.10.2008
I raised the question of modifying AI behaviour a while back, and drew comparisons with the work that was undertaken on BoB II: WoV and how AI modding tranformed that particular game:
viewtopic.php?t=7358
It's possible, but as those looking into the AI coding have found out, it's very complex - so AI remains something of a 'holy grail' for modders at the moment. It needs a team with considerable time & dedication (not to mention Java coding skills) to work on this one.
Hawkers
- TCFsube - 21.10.2008
Thanks for the replies guys.
I too think IL2 has the best AI so far of sims I've played. But still not perfect.
And I do agree with the fact that sometimes you get the credit for a "unconfirmed" kill.
Which in the end, I think makes up for the AI stealing kills.
Been starting alot more campaigns as the highest rank just so I can order them back in formation and have my glory.
Looks like maybe one day some clever modders might be able to address it some, until then... oh well, life goes on and I'll just keep on flyin'.