p40 vulnerability in Darwin campaign - Printable Version
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p40 vulnerability in Darwin campaign - chief2000 - 03.01.2009
Has anyone noticed how incredibly vulnerable the P40e is to enemy fire? I''ve been playing the beautiful Darwin campaign and just one burst from a Betty is enough to either catch the engine on fire or disable it completely. Is this normal or is there a fix? :x
- F4U-1_Corsair - 03.01.2009
in this case, you have to remember that the betty has a 20mm tail gun, and that a P40's radiator although protected more than some other aircraft like the P51, could still be disabled by a lucky hit.
- B50 - 03.01.2009
This is completely normal.
Some of the gunner stations on the betty are 20mm, not just 7.7. I am about halfway through this campaign, and I have been shot down or nearly so on every mission.
I believe that this is partly due to the intercept nature of the missions, where you're climbing to meet and attack fast, manueverable fighters and bombers in an aircraft that climbs like a brick. The P-40 does best by diving down on it's victims from high altitude and escaping. Though in the sim it turns very well, the wing loading is just too high to dogfight with zeros. And if you are attacking Betty's from below or behind, with IL2's robo-sniper, gyro adjusted, computerized bomber gunner stations, then the result will be exactly as you have described. Every time.
If surviving interests you, disregard what your flight does. Climb to 12,000 feet over Darwin, and when the bombers get there, dive at high speed and make 1 or 2 (at the most) passes on Bettys, staying in the vertical and then extend and escape, ignoring fighters. If you do this you will live. Almost every time. As their escort breaks off into into individual dogfights, you might with your altitude/energy advantage, be able to help your friendlies that have zeroes on their tails.
Enjoy.
B50
- ColaBen - 03.01.2009
Hi'
This is really an old error carried over from the original game. All the bombers in the game is "Radar controlled" and can see and hit you when you are near, there is no cover in the dark or coming out of the sun, this is IMHO the only immersion killer in this excellent game :roll:
Happy NewYear
ColaBen
PS a workaround is using your rudders when you close for the kill.
- Phil_K - 03.01.2009
I think the problem here is that the author of the campaign has probably left the G4M gunners at "average" when they should really be set to "rookie". Not only does the G4M have a 20mm rear gunner, but G4M gunners are almost supernaturally accurate.
The general principle with Bettys should always be for rookie gunners. If you go into the FMB or .mis file and re-set the gunners, you should get more playable missions.
- Poltava - 03.01.2009
I am planning an update for the "Darwin Defenders" campaign, and I will then reset the skill to "Rookie".
- B50 - 03.01.2009
Peter,
I didn't mean to sound like I was criticizing the campaign. The tone of my post is directed towards answering the original poster.
I like the campaign, the map, environment and the challenge. When I say that I was nearly shot down every mission, It's because I drove home my attacks on purpose to get two more Betty's or another zero, not because I didn't enjoy the challenge or had a complaint.
B50
good wisdom - thanks - chief2000 - 03.01.2009
Thanks for all your wisdom - you're right - forgot about the mighty stinger in the tail. Love the campaign and everything about it despite the accuracy of the gunners!
- ordway - 03.01.2009
I don't know about the tactics for the Darwin area, however for the AVG Flying Tigers (if I remember right), they were instructed to only attack from above with high speed passes. The idea was to inflict maximum damage with mininum causulties. They were lead by a brilliant tactician-Chenault.
Maybe the Darwin defenders really were so badly lead that many squadron leaders just ordered Kamakaze-like "attack em up the rear wherever and whenever you find em and damn the torpedoes". Every squadron seemed to have different tactics...anyone know the protocol for the Darwin area squadrons?
Thanks.
- Widowmaker - 03.01.2009
The P40s are all a bit glass jawed.. though the B/C and tomahawk versions are the worst.
regardless, you should never attack bombers from behind the 3-9 line.
Best attack is a diving frontal, (or if there is no belly gunner... a rapid climbing shot at the engines).
In most any instance... if you fly parallel out about 600 yards or more... a little high and just out in front... then turn in at a 45-60 degree angle or so and set up an intercept point.. fly to it and rake the cockpit or engines and fly on out and climb on the other side.. you'll hardly ever even get shot at.
- Poltava - 06.01.2009
In the new version of "Darwin Defenders", the Japanese gunners are little bit less lethal. But you still have to have something of a deathwish if you want to attack the "Betty" directly from behind!
See this thread: viewtopic.php?p=133378#133378
- larsen - 14.01.2009
Hi everybody,
Nothing to say about the campaign made by Peter : all of them are great included Darwin Defenders. The accuracy of the gunners is a problem but this is obviously due to AI. From times to times, i modify myself the status of the crews using Quick Mission Tuner and put them as rookies, just like Peter did with 2.0. This is not very historical but much more playable.
Concerning tactics, as it was stated, i think the best in order to avoid defensive fire is to attack from front or diving from the front side. You can also climb, dive and finally attacking from rear below; you will have plenty of time to aim and fire but so will they have !
Fighter tactics at Darwin were mainly based on hit and run. Indeed US fighters pilots in Darwin (49 FG) were mainly rookies included flight leaders : among the 102 pilots who initially arrived in Australia in february-march 1942, 89 of them came directly from schools. During this campaign 25 japanese planes were effectively destroyed (for 76 victories claimed; just classic overclaiming !) for the loss of 42 P40 (included 22 by accidents); 4 US fighters pilots were KIA (one of them downed by friendly AAA) plus 8 killed in flying accidents. On the other hand, some 86 japanese airmen were killed included 10 fighter pilots. So we can say US pilots performed well considering japanese were better trained, experienced and flying the superior A6M. They made them doubt about their superiority.
One of the problem for US fighters was to climb quick enough to intercept. Japanese bombers were flying high (some 20-21 000 feets or more) and delays were short. On the other hand, in some cases, it seems that bombers, on seeing US fighters, just turned back ...