How to fight and win against Spitfire Mk1 with Bf 109 E - Printable Version
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How to fight and win against Spitfire Mk1 with Bf 109 E - Werner Molders - 15.01.2009
Having spent enough time flying the Bf109E i may as well tell my secrets which i have used online to shoot down the Spit's on servers like 4.09 BoB 1940 (LW10) on hyperlobby. The Spitfire MkI has, like most Spitfires great defensive advantages.
In-game at least, it can out turn the Messerschmitt E in all cases, although i am working on finding out the actual real figures with some help of Kurfurst to make a complete performance guide. Sadly many online pilots (30%) i see flying the Emil will simply fly out into the English channel at low level and try to out turn the enemy at low alt using whatever determination they can. Sometimes they are lucky when the Spit goes into a spin but most time its a one sided story.
On il2, there are many principles that define how successful your attacks will be and taking some steps will ensure you will at least get a chance. The E-4 and later variants are all as good as Spit but E-1 takes some gunnery skill.
HEIGHT - Stay above 3500m at least while over enemy territory. The Bf 109 is designed for med/high altitudes. This simply cant be said enough - the Bf109 is a great climber and diver so you need altitude!! Some experienced Spitfire pilots will fly at altitudes of 6000m and will surprise even the most careful of pilots.
SPEED - Enter a fight at high speed and you have the chance to pull out if necessary (this should always be done when outnumbered so you can re-climb and make another pass)
TURN/ROLL - You simply cant win in a continued horizontal turning fight with a Spitfire, but you can use the scissors tactic as you have a superior roll rate which reduces the time it takes to weave and catch out the Spitfire, usually its best to apply combat flaps and reduce speed slightly then power up after you change direction to accelerate into the enemy.
CLIMB - Overall the Bf 109 can climb quicker to altitudes and can climb sharper (using combat flaps helps turn sharper too) but not always as high in a combat climb due to the loss of energy being greater. As long as you are close enough to stay out of his deflection range of fire (when you are far enough back to hit an aircraft in climb or dive because you have a smaller angle to climb/dive into from your range).
DIVE - The Spitfire really suffers here, the MkI engine will cut out in a dive unless he/she flips upside down to keep engine running without fuel loss. The 'bunt' (push stick hard into a dive from level flight) is therefore an effective escape manoeuvre.
FIREPOWER/GUNNERY - The Bf 109 has a good armament although you have to use it carefully. Never just waste cannon ammo as its little, a combination of cannon and machine gun fire at close range will devastate a Spitfire and a good hit near the engine or wing will effectively take them down. Do not continue to fight a fighter with fuel or glycol coolant (grey smoke) pouring out. You are wasting cannon ammunition and time when he may be calling his friends over to your position. Firing machine gun ammo to scare a pilot is not so bad as you have about a minute's firing time, so fire bursts to provoke a Spit to make a mistake. Head on attacks require a medium range shot, 2-4 second burst and then a fast dive or turn to escape the immediate firing of the Spit's wide cone of fire which is bound to hit something, most likely the pilot or engine. This requires accuracy and a fast manoeuvre out the way.
The Spitfire has to be close to hit something effectively but with accuracy you can hit a Spitfire from a further distance, especially if you can learn to deflection shoot a Spitfire as he tries to turn horizontally sharply in front of you, then you have won half the battle.
TACTICS - Its best to have a wingman and go hunting at around 5000m where you are safe, avoid flak that could give away your position and try to fly with the sun behind you. If you fly near to RAF airfields at 4000 - 5000 m near London and especially around areas like Maidstone where you will find the Spitfire's climbing to the coast or heading home from sorties you can often catch them out. Dover is also an area of activity but should be approached with caution because of flak. Boom and Zoom is the best tactic and coming in flying in behind the Spitfire(s) just below and to rear will avoid being seen and will often ensure a kill.
DEFENCE - Obviously if you have a wingman you can apply rotte tactics but the Spitfire can be a pain to get rid of if you are surprised. Bunts as described earlier are effective, but you must have altitude. Closing radiator can increase speed but dramatically increase overheating which can damage engine after about 3 minutes of overheating. This is usually enough to escape. If you have a high speed enemy, using the overshoot tactic can often work as well. Sharp climbs can work but are dangerous and should not be done when the enemy is further than a few metres from your tail (deflection).
One tactic i have developed is when at low altitude and low/medium speed is to get close to ground (350m / 400m ish and then turn over upside down and dive into the opposite direction to where you were going. Reduce your throttle to 0 in the dive and once you are past 180 degrees (aiming for ground) accelerate full power and pull as hard as you can back up. Using combat flaps helps and as long as there isnt too much distance between you and the ground, most Spitfires will crash behind because they cant pull up fast enough if they follow. Its worked 4 times for me but requires very careful judgement.
Also running flat out with little rudder twists and slight turns to avoid hits can often evade a Spit when at sea level. Again this takes practice.
- IV/JG2_Dargon - 15.01.2009
Nice guide. Its really sad to see so much pilots still try to turnfight with spits or hurris. But i gotta agree with tactics too. If you fly with a rotte or even with a schwarm you can easily shoot down many spits with using dive and your higher speed. On guy has the 6 and the other one shoots down the spit :p . That works always.
- B50 - 15.01.2009
Great Guide.
While this information in general is almost 90 years old, it needs to be constantly learned and revisited and discussed to keep your game at a hight level.
These same tactics can be adapted in almost any server with any aircraft types that share these general differing attributes. Such as Fw-190's against Yaks, P-40 against Machi and so on.
Great post.
B50
- Bard - 16.01.2009
Sound energy fighter vs turn fighter tactics and mention of the way to counter it.
We've been doing a Battle of Britain scenario in forgotten skies - 40-50 spits vs 40-50 109's per mission.
Unfortunately both sides are full of pilots who know what they're doing so we end up with only a dozen kills being made over 90 minutes - due to spits not allowing the 109's to execute the tactics you've described here by forcing the fight up to extreme altitudes (24-30,000 ft).
- MrJim1979 - 05.02.2009
This is probably the most comprehensive appraisal of Early 109 tactics I have read on the net.
Thanks Werner.
- terrorfleiger - 07.02.2009
Yup, that's an excellent guide. Thanks.
- NathanielGreene - 16.02.2009
the spitfire/seafire is the only plane in the game i really fear. im sure this will come in handy. in the 109, if not my beaten little zero. :o
- juhroen89 - 18.02.2009
tnx for the good tactics,
I fly allot with the 109-e and against a spit i use a climbing spiral
try this maybe you like it.
Spit in front with the same altitude:
dive down till about 250 m below when passing pull up steep and wait for his first move. If he climbs, you climb to in a spiral, use your energy to get on his 6, when his speed is much lower. when the spitfire dives ''keep your alt.'' and just wait till you have the position to attack. a good pilot will fool you! don't folow, (in a left turn he turns right) you will overshoot,loose energy and a good pilot uses it to make you the hunted.
(if you have a wingman, dive in a cross not a scissor) If he tries to fool, you can kill him,,,,,,,
when you miss, spiral up again , meet with your wingman and try again! ''have patience''
spitfire on your six:
Make that spiral again, i practiced allot on a angle (in climbing and banking left or right) if you do this good, you will stay out of gunsight. (speed is about 200km) if the spitfire tries to pull up his ''aim''
he will stall. when you are climbing to fast use a little bit of rudder the spittfire stalls or banks easily on low speed. most good pilots brake off when they still can, if not the hunter becomes hunted by the 109-e!!!! :twisted:
my gunvergences
(cannons 500m)
(guns 1000m)
i don't use the cannon settings of the spittfire (250yrd) the me's gunsight is not made fore it and i find out it is not as effective but thats my opinion.
8)