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Thoughts about skin mods: Impossible? - Printable Version

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Thoughts about skin mods: Impossible? - keinmann - 26.04.2009

I've been thinking about what could be some very useful mods for the skinning department, and I've got two ideas... However, I don't know if this would even be possible...

#1) It would be great if we could use 24 or even 32 bit color for our skins. I'm sure this has been brought up before. It would make skins look absolutely amazing. But as of now, only 8bit indexed colors are recognized by the engine.

Would it be theoretically possible to create a mod that would allow the engine to use 24 or 32 bit color for skins? Or does IL-2's engine simply not allow this, period?

#2) Every single plane has a separate skin folder, and most of us have the same skins in different folders for similar variants. The same skin you use on a 109E4 will fit with an E7 (just like many other aircraft). So we are using a lot of memory just to use the same skins for similar planes. Many folks have 5-10GB of skins, and a huge portion are just "repeats".

So would it be theoretically possible to create a mod that would allow you to save a particular skin only once, yet use it on the other aircraft variants it also fits on? It seems to me that you could, provided you are willing to put in the time.

Maybe some sort of application could be written that would rename certain folders when you select a particular aircraft? I am a C/C++ programmer, and provided a little more info about this, I might be able to do something like this some day (when I have more free time).

Re: Thoughts about skin mods: Impossible? - Dudok22 - 26.04.2009

yeah 32 bit skins +1 Smile

- JAMF - 26.04.2009

Going 2048 res wouldn't hurt either, because looking out of the cockpit, the skins look pants. Skinners do a great job with what they are given, but the close up view from the pit isn't making me happy. :oops: Cry

+1 for 24Bit, 2048x2048 skins.

(Online skin transfer would be limited to the 1024 skin)

Re: Thoughts about skin mods: Impossible? - canonuk - 26.04.2009

keinmann Wrote:#2) Every single plane has a separate skin folder, and most of us have the same skins in different folders for similar variants. The same skin you use on a 109E4 will fit with an E7 (just like many other aircraft). So we are using a lot of memory just to use the same skins for similar planes. Many folks have 5-10GB of skins, and a huge portion are just "repeats".

It breaks my heart to hear people have this attitude Wink As a skinner and nerd for historical accuracy, I would never even dream of using a Bf 109E-4 skin on anything other than a Bf 109E-4. Sheesh.... Smile

On the issue of larger skins, I could imagine a possible workaround would be possible if when the modeller mapped a new aircraft, different 1024x1024 textures were used for different areas. For example, the wings could have a dedicated 1024x1024 texture etc. This is already done to a limited degree on certain aircraft. For example, the Bf 109s use the main skin for everything except the wheels, which are mapped to a different texture. This would be easiest to implement on fully new builds. A downside would be the need to have many templates for one whole aircraft, and would probably slow everything down quite a bit.

Re: Thoughts about skin mods: Impossible? - keinmann - 26.04.2009

canonuk Wrote:
keinmann Wrote:#2) Every single plane has a separate skin folder, and most of us have the same skins in different folders for similar variants. The same skin you use on a 109E4 will fit with an E7 (just like many other aircraft). So we are using a lot of memory just to use the same skins for similar planes. Many folks have 5-10GB of skins, and a huge portion are just "repeats".

It breaks my heart to hear people have this attitude Wink As a skinner and nerd for historical accuracy, I would never even dream of using a Bf 109E-4 skin on anything other than a Bf 109E-4. Sheesh.... Smile

On the issue of larger skins, I could imagine a possible workaround would be possible if when the modeller mapped a new aircraft, different 1024x1024 textures were used for different areas. For example, the wings could have a dedicated 1024x1024 texture etc. This is already done to a limited degree on certain aircraft. For example, the Bf 109s use the main skin for everything except the wheels, which are mapped to a different texture. This would be easiest to implement on fully new builds. A downside would be the need to have many templates for one whole aircraft, and would probably slow everything down quite a bit.

Ahhh!!! Canon got me! Big Grin

Yes, it is true that it's not always historically accurate to "recycle" skins, but then again, many skins aren't even historical. Big Grin

Really my point is just something for the sake of saving memory. Having a tool like that would really save alot.

Re: Thoughts about skin mods: Impossible? - JAMF - 26.04.2009

canonuk Wrote:On the issue of larger skins, I could imagine a possible workaround would be possible if when the modeller mapped a new aircraft, different 1024x1024 textures were used for different areas. For example, the wings could have a dedicated 1024x1024 texture etc. This is already done to a limited degree on certain aircraft. For example, the Bf 109s use the main skin for everything except the wheels, which are mapped to a different texture. This would be easiest to implement on fully new builds. A downside would be the need to have many templates for one whole aircraft, and would probably slow everything down quite a bit.
My problem (and many others I presume) is that the P-38 has a lot of surface area in view. The engine nacelles, inner wing and prop are so close and prominent, that you can count the pixels. The wing roots are just under the windows. As cockpit view is where I would spend most of my time, the underside, outer wings and rudder surfaces are not an issue.

The spitfire with functioning doors will get an up-close look of the wings too now.

I can see a big benefit to having 2 textures. No more mirrored text and numbers, if you do a left side and a right side texture. Smile

Re: Thoughts about skin mods: Impossible? - keinmann - 28.04.2009

JAMF Wrote:
canonuk Wrote:On the issue of larger skins, I could imagine a possible workaround would be possible if when the modeller mapped a new aircraft, different 1024x1024 textures were used for different areas. For example, the wings could have a dedicated 1024x1024 texture etc. This is already done to a limited degree on certain aircraft. For example, the Bf 109s use the main skin for everything except the wheels, which are mapped to a different texture. This would be easiest to implement on fully new builds. A downside would be the need to have many templates for one whole aircraft, and would probably slow everything down quite a bit.
My problem (and many others I presume) is that the P-38 has a lot of surface area in view. The engine nacelles, inner wing and prop are so close and prominent, that you can count the pixels. The wing roots are just under the windows. As cockpit view is where I would spend most of my time, the underside, outer wings and rudder surfaces are not an issue.

The spitfire with functioning doors will get an up-close look of the wings too now.

I can see a big benefit to having 2 textures. No more mirrored text and numbers, if you do a left side and a right side texture. Smile

Only possible problem with a two sided texture for aircraft is if the colors dont match up perfectly on the edges, you will get an ugly line right down the middle of your plane! :? lol

I think the idea of using different 1024x1024 textures for different parts would be great. It would create some quality control issues, but nothing too bad. The increase in quality would be astounding though, once the skinner gets used to the new format.

I don't know a lot about UV unwrapping, but maybe when I get some time someday, I'll export a plane mesh and make some UV maps for different parts. Then I could turn that over to a skinner, and see what they could do with it.

Just don't expect that anytime soon, lol. I'm really a programmer, and models and textures aren't my thing.

Re: Thoughts about skin mods: Impossible? - JAMF - 28.04.2009

keinmann Wrote:Only possible problem with a two sided texture for aircraft is if the colors dont match up perfectly on the edges, you will get an ugly line right down the middle of your plane! :? lol
The thing is, I would think one would make 1 side first and make a mirrored copy. After that adding numbers and text is just dotting the "I". If the skin would have an asymmetric camo, you could create a 2048x1024 texture and cut it into the 2 separate textures.

- keinmann - 28.04.2009

Ahh... Good thinking. Ya see, this really isn't my thing! :lol:

You've gotta say though, 32bit color would be soooo sexy, wouldn't it? 8)

- rossmum - 28.04.2009

It would, and it was rather a nasty shock for me when I made my first skin for the game and realised it absolutely had to be saved as indexed 8-bit. It really, really screws with the details on some skins. Higher res would be nice, but let's at least see if there's any way to get better colour depth first, since that's by far the biggest limit on skins that I can see.

- canonuk - 28.04.2009

Download a plugin for Photoshop called 'Bright'. It converts to Indexed files but you lose almost none of the detail.

- keinmann - 28.04.2009

canonuk Wrote:Download a plugin for Photoshop called 'Bright'. It converts to Indexed files but you lose almost none of the detail.

Really now? That's an interesting idea. I'll definitely test it out. I'm a total n00b skinner, and I work with templates. I can make great looking skins, but not from scratch like you and other pros. First and foremost, I just couldn't ever dedicate the time to make skins 100% from scratch. But I do enjoy working with a good template. (And by template I mean a layered document with correct rivet, line patterns, optional markings, etc. You still do the painting and everything, but you just overlay the rivets and things like that. Huge time saver for n00bz like me.) :wink:

Thanks for the advice though, Canon!

I'd definitely like to look into the 32bit color idea though, and see if it's possible and worthwhile to pursue. If it is theoretically possible, and there's a way to keep the engine from rejecting it, I think that would be a HUGE evolution for the game, and the quality of our graphics. 32bit wouldn't just be sexy... No... 32bit IS the sex! :lol: