Real tracers possible mod we need your advice - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: Real tracers possible mod we need your advice (/showthread.php?tid=62715)

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Real tracers possible mod we need your advice - nuk3m - 23.06.2009

Ok I will start by sayng that those who made il2 didn't made anything wrong with the tracers.
There is a but...looking at ww2 guncams and reading somthing avout balistics we know that tracers are bullets but with a chemical product that cathches fire..even the tracers are spinning in the air so why don't we do something about it...here it is an example..




u can clearly see the tracers that are spinning as he exits the machinegun..
Also tracers are bouncing when they hit the ground...so maybe we can do somthing about it...
I know i'm knew here so u maybe think hey who the f u are gere giving us orders we already thought of that!? well my answer is that i want only to help u i have some graphic experience and that's why i know how a thing whould look like. To be onest i don't know how does the file's of the game work or if we can modify them but if i can help just tell me



Maybe i was boring or i have some gramatical erors pls forgive me
Thx for everything...and i would like some comments
ysy

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- dorkfish - 23.06.2009

As I understand it, the squiggly tracer phenomenon was caused by the vibration of the gun camera. And we are not flying by looking though a guncam. Also, not all footage shows this effect. Like the first few seconds of this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Mvy7uNHxY

Respectfully.

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- nuk3m - 23.06.2009

dorkfish Wrote:As I understand it, the squiggly tracer phenomenon was caused by the vibration of the gun camera. And we are not flying by looking though a guncam. Also, not all footage shows this effect. Like the first few seconds of this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Mvy7uNHxY

Respectfully.

when u are in cockpit u don't see the tracers? only when u fly with the guncam on? wouldn't be much more realistic looking at the spinning tracers that hit the plane?
Ok so u are teling me that they are so cuz of the vibrating cam? so why when they already far they are countinuasly spinning? yes u are right the'y aren't spinning so much (in the video) that u give me maybe cuz the tracers are fired into a heavy air opposition at that speed ...no wonder the tracers are going towards right...

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- dorkfish - 23.06.2009

nuk3m Wrote:when u are in cockpit u don't see the tracers? only when u fly with the guncam on? wouldn't be much more realistic looking at the spinning tracers that hit the plane?

No, that's not what I am saying. I am saying that the vibration of the gun camera is what causes the tracers to have the zig zag effect. A pilot flying the plane would see the tracers, but they would not be squiggly to his eye because he is not looking through a guncam.

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- nuk3m - 23.06.2009

dorkfish Wrote:

nuk3m Wrote:when u are in cockpit u don't see the tracers? only when u fly with the guncam on? wouldn't be much more realistic looking at the spinning tracers that hit the plane?

No, that's not what I am saying. I am saying that the vibration of the gun camera is what causes the tracers to have the zig zag effect. A pilot flying the plane would see the tracers, but they would not be squiggly to his eye because he is not looking through a guncam.

Ok i understand what are u sayng..now..but i've saw footage were the plane fires only some burt's so there is a pause..to stabilize the guncam...but the tracers are continuasly spinning to the target in the "pause" bettwen the burt's...

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- dorkfish - 23.06.2009

nuk3m Wrote:Ok i understand what are u sayng..now..but i've saw footage were the plane fires only some burt's so there is a pause..to stabilize the guncam...but the tracers are continuasly spinning to the target in the "pause" bettwen the burt's...

I don't know, man. I've fired .50 rounds from M2 during live fire at night and the tracers don't wobble or zig zag. Maybe the camera is still shaking a bit even after the burst.

Regards

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- Skunkmeister - 23.06.2009

Its a guncam in a an airplane. Airplanes vibrate. FFS.

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- nuk3m - 23.06.2009

dorkfish Wrote:

nuk3m Wrote:Ok i understand what are u sayng..now..but i've saw footage were the plane fires only some burt's so there is a pause..to stabilize the guncam...but the tracers are continuasly spinning to the target in the "pause" bettwen the burt's...

I don't know, man. I've fired .50 rounds from M2 during live fire at night and the tracers don't wobble or zig zag. Maybe the camera is still shaking a bit even after the burst.

Regards

Why did they put that smoke tracer....that goes left and right? for beauty? i don't think so....

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- ArcticViper - 23.06.2009

Don't think for a second that the rounds wiggle across the sky, a bullet flies relatively straight and true. This is because the bullet is made to rotate around it's own axis by the rifling of the barrel.
It doesn't wiggle across the sky, but rotate around it's own core so to speak.

research rifling and you'll probably understand... Just because it looks good on videos doesn't mean that's how it looks/behaves in real life...

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- nuk3m - 23.06.2009

ArcticViper Wrote:Don't think for a second that the rounds wiggle across the sky, a bullet flies relatively straight and true. This is because the bullet is made to rotate around it's own axis by the rifling of the barrel.
It doesn't wiggle across the sky, but rotate around it's own core so to speak.

research rifling and you'll probably understand... Just because it looks good on videos doesn't mean that's how it looks/behaves in real life...

I can see that all of you are contrary for the spinning tracers but i think u are misunderstanding me...i didn't say that the tracer must go zig zag! i've only said that is spinning..like u are sayng..and it's true maybe in the photo there the tracers is to whagy..but it get's close but look here min 2 06..
even if the guncame shakes i don't know that gives all that effect to the tracers but nowne didn't answered me...why in game to the tempest for example they have that zig zag smoke tracer??

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- nuk3m - 23.06.2009

nuk3m Wrote:

ArcticViper Wrote:Don't think for a second that the rounds wiggle across the sky, a bullet flies relatively straight and true. This is because the bullet is made to rotate around it's own axis by the rifling of the barrel.
It doesn't wiggle across the sky, but rotate around it's own core so to speak.

research rifling and you'll probably understand... Just because it looks good on videos doesn't mean that's how it looks/behaves in real life...

I can see that all of you are contrary for the spinning tracers but i think u are misunderstanding me...i didn't say that the tracer must go zig zag! i've only said that is spinning..like u are sayng..and it's true maybe in the photo there the tracers is to whagy..but it get's close but look here min 2 06..
even if the guncame shakes i don't know that gives all that effect to the tracers but nowne didn't answered me...why in game to the tempest for example they have that zig zag smoke tracer??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6OTxPiViHk

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- Kopfdorfer - 23.06.2009

I think you should go for it nuk3m. In my opinion the basis of what you say is true. Part of the visual "squiggle" of tracer is the residue of the burning (phosphorous?) in the path of the bullet WHICH IS A SPIRAL, and if you ask a physicist (please do) the forces created by being fired from an aircraft flying at in excess of 200 knts (which is the velocity the bullet starts at before it is fired) in some amount of wind from any given direction will affect the path of the bullet.
Hence the complications of deflection shooting.
Besides this is a game and a pastime, and it's enquiring minds like nuk3ms and thoughts like this that have made AAA. Let him go.
As the tired old adage goes..."If you don't like the product, don't use it".

I'm grumpy today

Kopfdorfer

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- nuk3m - 23.06.2009

Kopfdorfer Wrote:I think you should go for it nuk3m. In my opinion the basis of what you say is true. Part of the visual "squiggle" of tracer is the residue of the burning (phosphorous?) in the path of the bullet WHICH IS A SPIRAL, and if you ask a physicist (please do) the forces created by being fired from an aircraft flying at in excess of 200 knts (which is the velocity the bullet starts at before it is fired) in some amount of wind from any given direction will affect the path of the bullet.
Hence the complications of deflection shooting.
Besides this is a game and a pastime, and it's enquiring minds like nuk3ms and thoughts like this that have made AAA. Let him go.
As the tired old adage goes..."If you don't like the product, don't use it".

I'm grumpy today

Kopfdorfer

Thx u very much....i was pretty sure that there is somewone there that agres with me...and all what u had sayd its all true! the spiral thing...all....
thx again

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- Skunkmeister - 23.06.2009

Kopfdorfer Wrote:I think you should go for it nuk3m. In my opinion the basis of what you say is true. Part of the visual "squiggle" of tracer is the residue of the burning (phosphorous?) in the path of the bullet WHICH IS A SPIRAL, and if you ask a physicist (please do) the forces created by being fired from an aircraft flying at in excess of 200 knts (which is the velocity the bullet starts at before it is fired) in some amount of wind from any given direction will affect the path of the bullet.
Hence the complications of deflection shooting.
Besides this is a game and a pastime, and it's enquiring minds like nuk3ms and thoughts like this that have made AAA. Let him go.
As the tired old adage goes..."If you don't like the product, don't use it".

I'm grumpy today

Kopfdorfer

The complication of deflection shooting is from the fact that you are trying to shoot a moving target from a moving platform, not the medium in which the rounds travel.

Also, a bullet does not travel in a spiral, but in a straight line. The bullet itself is spinning about its own axis. Let me see if I can explain this better. The prop on the front (or rear) of the aircraft is spinning, while the aircraft is travelling in a straight line. While the propeller may be spinning about its center axis, it is also still travelling in a straight line, not a spiral. If the prop was travelling in a spiral, so too would the aircraft.

The gun cameras shot film. One of the drawbacks of film is that it requires a specific amount of light exposure time to produce an image. If the subject that you are filming moves faster than the time of exposure, you get trails. Like this:





And the spinning and squiggling effect you see on gun cam footage is just that, compounded by the fact that the world is moving violently around the camera (think relativity here) as the guns are fired, while in reality the tracers are moving in a relatively straight line.

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- Eexhaton - 23.06.2009

@Above; also, what we see, due to the inability of the human eye to see fast-moving small objects well, is more of a streak. As the pictures above show.

Something not mentioned above, what is also a factor in ballistics, but not simulated in IL2 is wind.

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