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AI problems - Printable Version

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AI problems - Warbird_242 - 13.07.2009

This is my second topic on this subject, but I have started a new one because the problem persists : The Ai is fine in 4.08m no mods, but with any of the mods on versions, my AI is extremely unreliable. In my other post, several people just said the AI is crap, live with it, but I want to emphasize that the AI is significantly worse after installing the unified installer. Examples of my problems: I selected a Mosquito Fighter Bomber ( with cannon and machine guns) and loaded it with four 250lb bombs. I have three other aircraft, with me as lead. Targets as armour and no AA defence Smile . Started mission, AI stick in formation for about 10 seconds. Then, completely unnanounced, they all break off and head for the armour targets ( or possibly the ground attack waypoint). No command will make them rejoin including 'rejoin' ' cover me' and ' next waypoint'. They attack, and then rejoin. If I order them to attack, they head away from the target for about ten miles, circle for five or so minutes and run in. Single pass, then repeat ( head away, circle etc). Obviously in some of my created missions with quick and low level pinpoint attack, then a straight withdrawal, having them circle for ten minutes is somewhat inconvenient. Also, another less annoying problem, but still a problem is that none of my flight call over the radio when they spot enemies ( air targets). They just go into the standard 'buddy-buddy' formation and three and four head after the bandits of their own accord. I would be grateful if someone could tell me how to fix these problems, or which mod is causing them.


( I type too much)

Thanks

Warbird Big Grin

- doc_nele - 13.07.2009

Have you tried AI mod 0.30 from Certificate?

viewtopic.php?t=13652

His AI mod is much smarter (better to say, less stupid Big Grin ) and feels more "human". But don't expect miracles like logic from any AI :wink:

- Warbird_242 - 13.07.2009

Yeah I've tried that, it only works with enemy AI. I was relating specifically to Wingmen behaviour, or how **** it is Big Grin . Do you know which mod causes the problem?

- Guest - 13.07.2009

Warbird, i'm pretty sure this problem is not because of a mod. I've also done extensive AI tests over the span of the last couple years, and the only noticeable differences in AI have come about with certain patches to the stock game.
Maybe what you're seeing is a change from stock 4.07 to 4.08? Or even 4.04 to another patch version. Which version of the game are you running prior to mods? :?:

- Pirate - 13.07.2009

I noticed some very strange AI behaviour when I was using Il2 dcg, but that was a long time ago and I never found a fix for it. However they still behaved as normal when in quick mission builder - so it may be something to do with how the missions are written?

- Warbird_242 - 13.07.2009

I'll provide a more detailed description for you -


Mission Scenario = Il2 1946 version 4.07 patched 4.08 and 9.

Selected 4.09b1m ( with Il2 version switcher) with AAA mods on.

Aircraft Mosquito FB mk VI Coastal Command mod ( aircraft is irrelevant, this happens with any ground attacker) .

3 wingmen me as lead.


Map = Smolensk

targets= Armour

defence = none.

On starting the mission, wingmen are in echelon formation. About 20 seconds in, as I near the targets zone, the wingmen break off and head for the armour targets ( or possibly the ground attack waypoint, they are in the same place). They drop their internal stores, and all that time were not responding to cover me, rejoin or any other commands. after bomb release, they rejoin and formate. I press > red flight> ground targets> attack all, and they break off and head for the target. Bomb release, then go around for a strafing run, only the 'going around' bit is about 20 km wide. They seem to only do a wings level rudder turn, without any elevator input at all. I'd say the turn rate is about five degrees per second. They then attack, and if I don't do anything, go around again etc etc

Hope that clarifies it a little. And Thanks for your replies.

PS BigbossMalone I don't notice the problems in 4.08 ( no mods) , so i'm pretty sure it is the mods.

Thanks, Warbird

- Aviar - 13.07.2009

Warbird_242,

The only way to 'prove' what you are saying is true is to perform a controlled test(s). From what you say in your post, you have not done so.

For instance, you give an example of a Mossie mission, but then you don't say which game version (unmodded or modded) you were using. Also, you never gave an example of what differences you see IN THAT MISSION when when you run each version (unmodded and modded).

So you see, you first need to prove what you are saying is true. So far, I don't see any proof at all.

**For instance, run your Mossie mission in an UNMODDED version of IL-2 and tell us what squadmates do. Then, run the SAME mission in a MODDED version of IL-2 and tell us what the squadmates do. You see?

Then, if you see any dramatic differences, we can talk.

(To me, from what you stated above, it looks like you were running a mission from the QMB. However, you did not mention the particular map. I did my own test with the same setup as you mentioned, using the Okinawa map. I ran the mission from both UNMODDED and MODDED (UI 1.1.1) versions (4.08m). There was no difference in how the AI reacted in the first 2 minutes.

In fact, I ran two different tests with the MODDED version. One with the AI Mod (3.0) and one without. I saw no real differences in the first two minutes of all three missions.)

As you can see, at this point, I have already documented more 'controlled' testing than you have and from what I observed, there is no 'extremely unreliable AI', as you put it.

Aviar

- Gonzo - 13.07.2009

I've noticed very similar problems as well when flying Co-ops with my unit. (Current game version = v1.10)

As best as I can tell so far, the AI mod has nothing to do with it. We run various versions of Cert's AI mod depending on the host and in a lot of cases, the AI's will not respond when over or around a target area. (Some of our hosts DO NOT run Cert's AI mod while others vary the version randomly in an effort to get unpredictable AI behaviour).

On approaching the target they will usually toss their bombs in the general direction of the target, usually missing by miles, and then just mill about making shallow turns well away from the target. The only thing artificially intelligent about it is that they won't let a breather flight lead use them as flak fodder.

While this gives the breathers in the game a chance to rack up some impressive scores, it places a lot fewer aircraft in the target area thus giving any flak units a better chance and popping a few into a breather. We've had to resort to decreasing the amount of AAA fire in an effort to compensate for the AI behaviour in some cases.

Now if only the AI

- Warbird_242 - 13.07.2009

To address your first point, sir, I would like to direct your attention to my post. I quote ' 4.09b1m (with Il2 version switcher) AAA mods on'. Your second point is valid, although I did assume that I was having exceptional problems and that from personal experience you and other posters would realise that what I was experiencing wasn't the norm.

I hardly feel the need to prove my point. I am not lying, and you have my word for that, though from what you say, you don't seem to have much trust in me at all.

For your next point, see the explanation above.

If you read a little more closely my previous post, sir, you will see that I did indeed include the map name. To save you the bother of having to look again, it was the Smolensk map.

Okay, you didn't notice any problems. So I am completely wrong. My eyes are decieving me. You saw no 'real' differences between the two tests, which implies you did see differences, so do not claim to have more controlled testing when you use vague terms such as that. And I did not say 'extremely.


I hope this has not offended you, sir, but as you may have guessed, your harsh and dismissive response certainly offended me.

Warbird

- Pirate - 14.07.2009

I wouldn't take too much offence Warbird, I think maybe Aviar is having a bad day and seems to think that taking it out on random people on the internet will solve his problems... (you'll have to let me know how that works out for you Aviar)

To narrow the possibilities down further its worth testing 4.08 with and without mods, and 4.09 with and without. If it happens in both versions with mods enabled it makes sense that something in the mods folder is causing the issue, then it would be a case of disabling mods until the problem goes away (it isn't likely anything in the UI, so anything you have added after that would be a good place to start). if it happens just in 4.09 with or without mods then something might have gone wrong with the 4.09 patching - which would hopefully be solved by reinstalling just the patch.

Hope you get it all sorted Smile

- Warbird_242 - 14.07.2009

Thanks Gonzo and Pirate.

Gonzo- yes the Cert AI mod really improves the whole Il2 experience. I was quite surprised when a BF-109 lowered flaps and gear to force an overshoot, stall turned around and shot me head on Big Grin


Pirate - yes I guessed Avair was having a bad day :wink:

I have tried testing a bit, but I think you're right in actually methodically testing a single mod on / off etc etc.



Thanks for all your support everyone ( apart from Aviar Smile )

Warbird