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[MOD] Ta-183 mechanics & DM - Printable Version

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+---- Thread: [MOD] Ta-183 mechanics & DM (/showthread.php?tid=67149)

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[MOD] Ta-183 mechanics & DM - Twister - 15.12.2009

I make this mod because in-game Ta-183 irritated me by blatant fault in air scheme, especially because it's one of my favourite planes in the game.
It's hard to make obvious error in modelling of such plane, since Ta-183 remained a "paper plane", but game developers managed to do it.
Ta-183 represented in game allegedly have normal air scheme, but it's wrong, despite Ta-183 cited as an example of similarity with MiG-15.
MiG-15 really has normal air scheme, but Ta-183 completely different. Ta-183 is more like "flying wing", as Me-163.
Control surfaces on the outer parts of its wings is not only ailerons for roll control, but also a elevators. In fact, it's a ELEVONS.
Even without knowing the technical data, an attentive observer noticed that, these ailerons ends behind tailpipe.
Small tailplane really is a complementary stabilizer, but small control surfaces on it, in fact, is a trimmer, not an elevator!
It's quite clear, even just by appearance. It's just too small. Whether it's a full stabilizer and elevator, tailfin would not stand such a load, possibly.
By the way, this plane should be able to stay in the air without such tail at all.

In short words, mod fixes control surfaces mechanics and makes some changes in damage model accordingly (also, chassis cover will not ram in flaps and X-4 fins).
U can check mechanic changes by switching to external view and watching, as control surfaces moving, while U moving controls.
U will notice that, "ailerons" moves accordingly "flying wing" air scheme, trimmer controls moves small control surfaces on the tailplane independently.
Now Ta-183 is the only plane in the game, having independently working elevator and trimmer.
DM has some changes in sake of that, loss of parts making adequate impact on the plane flight and control.
This changes do not give obvious advantages, but knowing it will do.

Briefly describing the possible consequences of damage:

if U got controls hit, U will lose roll and pitch control at the same time, but yaw and trimmer control will remained;

if U lose one aileron, U will lose pitch control. Shame, but I am failed to reproduce effect of attempt to control pitch with one remaining aileron,
so roll control with one aileron will be deteriorated, pitch control will just jam;
if U lose both ailerons U will lose roll and pitch control, but still will have rudder and trimmer control.
U can try to turn to base and land safely, although it will be difficult;

losing of one aileron or half of tailplane will produce tendency to bank to respective side, if G is positive, and otherwise, if G is negative;
losing of ailerons also affects respective wing area;

if U lose one of small control surfaces on the tailplane, it will have adequate effect on trimming, if U lose both of them, U lose trimmer;

U can even lose entire tail and still be able to get home in one piece with some luck, as pitch and roll control will be remained.
U will lose some stability, trimmer and rudder, but also lose some air drag a bit.
Stall will be unrecoverable and quickly progressing to flat spin.

Mod has no changes FM, since it looks quite adequate, especially, no real data is possible.

Credits to MrJolly & Lt.Wolf, since mod supposed to be based on gyro-gunsight mod for Ta-183. If based on this mod, my mod adds the automatic rangefinder,
such-like I've made for P-80A: viewtopic.php?t=23153
But it can also work independently, yet without gyro-gunsight & rangefinder feature, of course.

This mod is "new slot", but question is that, can I post it as replacement or fix for default, since it's not changing FM & armament,
or this would be illegal here :?:

You can download this mod here: http://www.filefront.com/15138833/Ta-183AAA.rar

To install mod, unpack the RAR folder to \MODS folder in your IL-2 directory and add this line:

Ta-183AAA air.TA_183_AAA 2 g01 SUMMER

to your air.ini file, located, probably in \MODS\STD\com\maddox\il2\objects folder inside your IL-2 directory.

Somebody just had to do it. So, what you say ?

- F22-Raptor-2006 - 15.12.2009

AAA would probably lean towards no in replacing default cos of DM changes. Any other sites such as C6, and the russian sites also including UltraPack, HSFX and SAS wouldn't care too much whether it did or not.

- ROSOBORONEXPORTCORP - 15.12.2009

I've actually talked to Oleg Maddox about this and he believes the elevon interpretation to be a post war invention.

Still, it is a neat idea. I would like a new-slot version in which the damage model causes the tailplane to snap off as a result of flutter at higher speeds (which as apparently confirmed by wind tunnel models at the Moscow Aviation Institute). The Bi-6 and He-162D were supposed to have similar problems (I personally would love to fly a 162D prototype that breaks up when you reach 400kph)!

- US_GRANT - 15.12.2009

This is taken from the Aircraft guide for the game.

A captured model of the Ta-183 was tested in the TsAGI wind tunnel post war, and immediately uncovered a fatal mistake in the design. Flutter and subsequent structural failure of the tail unit began at only 700 km/h. Therefore we

- ROSOBORONEXPORTCORP - 15.12.2009

Yes. Kurt Tank's team wasn't stupid by the way: They designed the original Ta-183 prototype to be able to switch between two different tail designs.
http://www.luft46.com/fw/ta183-i.html
http://www.luft46.com/fw/ta183-ii.html

It would also be interesting to see this aircraft with a bomb bay (and an option for carrying only 2xX-4, instead of the ridiculous 4xX-4 loadout)

- seaniebeag1983 - 15.12.2009

is this a new slot plane?

- Twister - 15.12.2009

US_GRANT Wrote:This is taken from the Aircraft guide for the game.
A captured model of the Ta-183 was tested in the TsAGI wind tunnel post war, and immediately uncovered a fatal mistake in the design. Flutter and subsequent structural failure of the tail unit began at only 700 km/h.
It was just a model, not the plane.

[quote="US_GRANT"]
Therefore we

- Baco1170 - 22.03.2010

Quote:
ROSOBORONEXPORTCORP Wrote:Kurt Tank's team wasn't stupid by the way: They designed the original Ta-183 prototype to be able to switch between two different tail designs.
I think so too. But I would suggest them alike DH "Vamire" tail design.

Actaully, When Mr Tank had the chance to continue its designs in Argentina he went with the Design II tail type, as seen in the Pulqui II...

[Image: p14mw.jpg]

- Twister - 08.04.2010

So he finished this work. Cool.
Incidentally, this is very similar with La-15, designed in 1948.

[Image: 300px-La-15.jpg]
[Image: la15-1.gif]

- Baco1170 - 09.04.2010

WOW! I didn't know abut the La 15! It's so simillar!
The Pulqui II project was canceled becouse the US offered 100 F 86 Sabre if the production was halted.
Of course then some wise@ss general cut his own deal somewhwere and Argentina onlly recived 26 Sabres in exchange for killing it's aeronautical industry.. Nuts!

- Twister - 15.04.2010

Baco1170 Wrote:WOW! I didn't know abut the La 15! It's so simillar!
Cunning people often takes similar paths. By the way, other Lavochkin planes (La-5F) German pilots often mistakes for Tank's FW-190.

Baco1170 Wrote:The Pulqui II project was canceled becouse the US offered 100 F 86 Sabre if the production was halted.
Of course then some wise@ss general cut his own deal somewhwere and Argentina onlly recived 26 Sabres in exchange for killing it's aeronautical industry.. Nuts!
Yep, looks like Argentina blow the chance to take leading position in aeronautical industry, promised by Reich legacy.

- Cuccos19 - 26.04.2010

I like the La-15! Would be nice to see it the game! Experts said it was better than the Mig-15, but Mig was more simple to make.

Re: [MOD] Ta-183 mechanics & DM - conehead - 06.07.2010

good mornings folks, the reason why so many similar planes all around the world popped up is, because of germany lost the war and so many designers and mechanics were locked up in secret areas of the United States, United Kingdom and the former Soviet Union, were they had to work on projected planes like the Ta 183 and other secret planes.

Re: [MOD] Ta-183 mechanics & DM - Murph - 06.07.2010

And of course you have documented proof that non- war criminals were locked up by Britain and the US.
Werner Von Braun, for example, was never "locked up". He was free to live wherever he chose to, so was Kurt Tank.
What were the names of these "locked up" scientists?
As Carl Sagan liked to say, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".
Otherwise I hereby claim that all modern jets were designed by the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM) by use of his noodle appendage.

Re: [MOD] Ta-183 mechanics & DM - madcat - 06.07.2010

Well Werner Von Braun was a war criminal, he was a member of the Nazi party and new about the slave labour used to build the V2. After the war the Americans decided that his expertise and scientific knowledge out weighed his crimes and Nazi affiliations, so they gave him a false history and brought him back to the US where he was a kind of a prisoner for little wile before becoming a citizen of the United States.

PS interesting mod Big Grin