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Which planes have excellent dive characteristics...? - Printable Version

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Which planes have excellent dive characteristics...? - HusarDerLuft - 02.03.2010

Other than the Messerschmitt 109, and the P-47 Thunderbolt,. what other fighter planes are excellent in the vertical...with high acceleration & dive speed characteristics?
(like the top 5 best "divers" in game... )

PS: (jets dont count)

Re: Which planes have excellent dive characteristics...? - Guest - 02.03.2010

HusarDerLuft Wrote:Other than the Messerschmitt 109, and the P-47 Thunderbolt,. what other fighter planes are excellent in the vertical...with high acceleration & dive speed characteristics?
(like the top 5 best "divers" in game... )

PS: (jets dont count)

Ha jets dont count well The ar234 Is still good.

- Cuccos19 - 02.03.2010

The Lightning has too good diving characteristics. :lol: Okay, you will need the dive breaked L or late J-25 version to come out the dive. Anyway its acceleration is very-very good, and very steady in dive. The dive breaks work perfectly. The models without dive breaks are very dangerous to take them into dive, because of the compressibility. I had to set throttles and prop pitchs to 0%, and lower the flaps to survive a serious dive. Sometimes my flaps jammed. Nothing is perfect... :roll:

- Romanator - 02.03.2010

Fighters or bombers? In either case, I would say Corsair, Hellcat, Wildcat, Airacobra, almost anything American. The P-38 and P-51 should be carefully managed as the former likes to lock up due to compressibility (use combat flaps or air-brake to pull out) and the latter likes to lose wings. Focke-Wulfs are also good at diving. Russian aircraft are horrible at diving, so don't even try it; stay in the horizontal.

The SBD is a great dive-bomber with 3x 500 lb bombs. It is terribly slow, so have a good escort, but when trouble strikes, it can be a good dogfighter. The .50 cals keep Zeros at bay, but the AI tail-gunner is totally useless (but the most realistic one in game). The Val is also good at turning, but very fragile. The Stuka is probably the best dive-bomber, but The B-2 has unprotected fuel tanks which easily light. Use the D-3 or D-5 if you can.

The Pe-2, though it has dive flaps, is terrible at diving. It's unstable in a dive and inaccurate at delivering bombs. It's practically a suicide plane with the way the wings fall off and the fuel tanks light. The Ju-88 is much better at diving, but keep it shallow, around 60 degrees. Since it's just an updated AI plane the damage model is still iffy and PKs are ridiculously easy.

- KG64_Cnopicilin - 02.03.2010

Every plane is if you fly them nicely.

- _VR_Aristo - 02.03.2010

I can't believe nobody mentioned the P-40!!! It's one of the best divers of the war!

Of course you have to use the prop pitch effectively to get the best out of it Wink

Aristo

- vzka - 02.03.2010

Don t forget The Tempest, it s a beast !!!

- FlyingShark - 02.03.2010

And of course, also the P51 Mustang and the P47 Thunderbolt.

~S~

Re: Which planes have excellent dive characteristics...? - ACE-OF-ACES - 02.03.2010

HusarDerLuft Wrote:Other than the Messerschmitt 109, and the P-47 Thunderbolt,. what other fighter planes are excellent in the vertical...with high acceleration & dive speed characteristics?
(like the top 5 best "divers" in game... )

PS: (jets dont count)
Define excellent

- RichardH - 02.03.2010

Dont forget the Spitfire either. It had one of the highest mach numbers recorded in a dive during the war.. Obviously, a lot of the american planes were heavier and accelerated faster, but the spitfire had a high top-speed when diving Smile

- KG64_Cnopicilin - 02.03.2010

vzka Wrote:Don t forget The Tempest, it s a beast !!!
Somehow I always rip it's wings off... Maybe I am not enough skilled for it..

- _VR_Aristo - 02.03.2010

KG64_Cnopicilin Wrote:Somehow I always rip it's wings off... Maybe I am not enough skilled for it..

Tempest is a much better diver than almost all of it's contemporaries allied or axis.

Aristo

- 334th_Grantura - 02.03.2010

109 good diver? its compresses at high speeds.

my top 5 i can think off:

p47
j2m3/5
FW190(incuding ta)
mc205
p40

grant

- _VR_Aristo - 02.03.2010

334th_Grantura Wrote:109 good diver? its compresses at high speeds.

my top 5 i can think off:

p47
j2m3/5
FW190(incuding ta)
mc205
p40

grant

How come the j2m3 is in second place... heck how come it is on the list in the first place?
Edit: Ok after testing the plane, I'll say it's not bad at all, although at bit slow on initial dive, it's very good at zoom climb. But still, second place?

Quote:dont forget the Spitfire either. It had one of the highest mach numbers recorded in a dive during the war..

That particular Spitfire reached 0.89 Mach, which was an experimental model that had the nose case ripped from the engine and the wings were laminar flow as well as being bent slightly backwards.


I'll quote vanir from another forum on the subject:
In actual service trim the highest official recording of compressibility during dive was for the Mustang at 0.8 Mach, any 'stang could do it and that was exceptional.
It was Charles Lindbergh who put the cap on the Thunderbolt dive. The Republic corporation had used test pilots on the company payroll to set the safe dive speed at 550mph indicated. Following a series of accidents in the New York region among training squadrons equipped with the new type, Lindbergh was asked to give an independent appraisal by the DoD(Department of Defence). He flew the P-47C and rated it as unstable in the dive at speeds exceeding 450mph indicated at 18,000 feet IIRC. By unstable he stated clearly the aircraft would likely kill the pilot in uncontrolled dives from extreme altitude and he was lucky to survive the test flight by attempting to achieve the manufacturer safe op guidelines.

It was noted by the DoD and NACA at the time (I can source references) that aircraft manufacturers in the US were routinely massaging listed performance specifications using paid test pilots rather than independent profiling of actual safe service operation (presumably in the competition to secure large contracts). Lindbergh was asked to test fly a wide variety of service aircraft for the DoD, there were others doing this job too. They travelled as civilians on the defence payroll even to field airstrips and tested aircraft under actual service conditions and trim for local revisions of operating procedures. I remember reading of a combat encounter by Lindbergh on one of these field test flights as a civilian contractor, apparently the combat zone had moved somewhat recently and the maps hadn't been adjusted. I don't think he was ever actually engaged by enemy aircraft though.

The phenomenal dive performance of the Thunderbolt is largely a myth, though the reality is still an extremely impressive dive performance. It's just that aircraft like the Messerschmitt, Focke Wulf, Tempest MkV and Griffon Spit could all match it. In fact the best divers according to British testing was the Griffon Spit and Tempest MkV in a power-on dive, although the Me-109G-2 they tested against them could still match initial dive acceleration (but not sustained power-on dives).

I've listened to the Luftwaffe aces in interviews being specifically asked about the P-47's dive performance, (Gunther) Rall for one, who comparatively tested these models as well as fought them in aerial combat had no idea it was even supposed to be quite so superior as the legend dictates. It had a good dive he said, nothing special. He liked the Mustang. To one persistant audience member, who asked what would you do if bounced by a Thunderbolt diving from altitude, he said well shoot it down of course. He did specify the P-47 had a great zoom, you couldn't follow it in the dive and get anywhere near the same altitude recovery afterwards, it was a severe mistake to try, that was the only notable thing about it he mentioned.
Anecdotal I realise.

Quote:109 good diver? its compresses at high speeds.


A part of a report about Bf-109 by test pilot Captain Eric Brown(who happens to flown more types of aircraft than anyone else in history):

"Diving - structural rigidity of 109 in dives

The Me 109 was dived to Mach 0.79 in instrumented tests. Slightly modified, it was even dived to Mach 0.80, and the problems experimented there weren't due to compressibility, but due to aileron overbalancing. P-51 and Fw 190 achieved about Mach 0.80. The P-47 had the lowest permissible Mach number of these aircraft. Test pilot Eric Brown observed it became uncontrollable at Mach 0.73, and "analysis showed that a dive to M=0.74 would almost certainly be a 'graveyard dive'."
Source: Radinger/Otto/Schick: "Messerschmitt Me 109", volumes 1 and 2, Eric Brown: "Testing for Combat".


To conclude; the reports are consistent that the P-47 wasn't as good at power-dive as it was publicized, in fact it was worse in respect to it's maximum safe dive speed than it's contemporaries by a considerable margin. Although being heavy, very good at accelerating on initial dive.

Hopefully that should clear the matter a little bit,

Aristo

- Deathsight - 02.03.2010

There's also the JU-88A4, it has air brakes included and something decent for a dive-bombing attacks. :wink: