Fighting Those MiGs! - Printable Version
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Fighting Those MiGs! - liamp51 - 02.03.2010
Hi all!
From my experience flying in Sabres against MiG-15s comes, my notes.
1: Make slow, deliberate control inputs; any sudden jerky movement will kill speed, thus you won't be able to catch them!
2: NEVER, EVER, EVER, SLOW DOWN! You WILL be blown out of the sky! The MiGs an accelerate MUCH faster than you!
3: ALWAYS FLY WITH A WINGMAN! He will protect you and break up the MiG's attention!
4: Use the radar ranging gunsight! It really works! http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,3406.0.html
5: Have fun!
- Metatron - 03.03.2010
I have a feeling that the sensitivity of control in sims leads many to wrong conclusions about aircraft...
In particular, it seems that the P-51 and the F-86 should be called North American Wobbler, mark 1 and 2, they are horrible to fly compared to their competition, even if the performance is good.
I realize that this is a problem with the sim and/or control imput settings rather than the aircraft designs.
- Leady - 03.03.2010
One of our squad members flew Sabres with the RAAF. He tells me they are twitchy aircraft and don't respond well to those who try to yank and bank them. This usually resulted in an "uncontroled" (over controled) up, down, up, down manouver that increased in severity. This could only be cured by the trainee being told to take his hand off the stick!
In short, twitchy sounds about right!
Cheers
Leady
- nick11 - 03.03.2010
anyone know if the FMs are likely to be tweaked with the next patch?
playing last night, i reckon half the problem is that the AI in the migs don't suffer from back outs. They can perform amazing zoom and booms and you just can't follow. then when you chase them they just sit up at high altitude out of reach.
perhaps what the sabre pilot really needs is a virtual G-suit.
the difference in maximum alts feels correct. reading james salter's brilliant book the hunters, he talks about sitting under the migs and having to wait paitently for them to come down so he could engage. Unfortunately the IL2 AI have little in common with Casey Jones.
The migs and sabres are such fantastic additiions to this game. it's turned it into a completely new sim. and freddy's sabre cockpit is pure bliss. please keep up the great work.
- nzwilliam - 03.03.2010
nick11 Wrote:perhaps what the sabre pilot really needs is a virtual G-suit.
From what I can tell, Sabre pilots already have them, flying online in a Mig against Sabres I've found many times they can sustain a high speed turn when I've already gone lights out at lower speeds. It's a pretty good way to get a human player off your tail if you're in a Sabre - if you're beginning to black out, he's probably already asleep if he's attempted to follow!
AI do have an ability to do manouvers in any plane that will black human pilots out if you follow - so probably not a good measure. Hopefully one day someone fixes that.
- Jefferson - 03.03.2010
You have to learn how to control both the Sabre and the Mustang properly... Treat them with respect and they will perform wonderfully for you. For both, I suggest rudder tricks as they can typically get the nose right on the tail of the 109 or 15...
- nick11 - 04.03.2010
nzwilliam Wrote:nick11 Wrote:perhaps what the sabre pilot really needs is a virtual G-suit.
From what I can tell, Sabre pilots already have them, flying online in a Mig against Sabres I've found many times they can sustain a high speed turn when I've already gone lights out at lower speeds. It's a pretty good way to get a human player off your tail if you're in a Sabre - if you're beginning to black out, he's probably already asleep if he's attempted to follow!
AI do have an ability to do manouvers in any plane that will black human pilots out if you follow - so probably not a good measure. Hopefully one day someone fixes that.
that's what i'm saying. the sabre pilot - as in the real life pilot (me) - needs a virtual G-suit.
- David603 - 04.03.2010
nick11 Wrote:I think what nzwilliam is saying is you do have a G-suit when flying the Sabre, but the AI pilots don't suffer from G-force at all, regardless of aircraft type.nzwilliam Wrote:nick11 Wrote:perhaps what the sabre pilot really needs is a virtual G-suit.
From what I can tell, Sabre pilots already have them, flying online in a Mig against Sabres I've found many times they can sustain a high speed turn when I've already gone lights out at lower speeds. It's a pretty good way to get a human player off your tail if you're in a Sabre - if you're beginning to black out, he's probably already asleep if he's attempted to follow!
AI do have an ability to do manouvers in any plane that will black human pilots out if you follow - so probably not a good measure. Hopefully one day someone fixes that.
that's what i'm saying. the sabre pilot - as in the real life pilot (me) - needs a virtual G-suit.
- JIMMY99 - 08.03.2010
Well...it's coool to know how to kick off migs but it seems that my ace wingmen don t know how to do it....
I have enough to find me alone against two untouchable rookies MIG-15s that have just shut down in a few minutes my three poor aces F-86F wingmen.....no?
Those Korea MODS are great but there is a problem with the MIG supremacy of the sky just not realistic compare with the historic reality....
Each time you play a US campaign with sabre it s just a F-86A/F slaughter...I think there is something to do here to coirrect this....
thanks
- vampire_pilot - 09.03.2010
the problem is not the plane performance but the AI...
as can be read from accounts, most Migs behaved unagressive or could be chased away by fiing in their general direction and if attacking had poor aim
only the ace rusian pilots stood out (that is what made them aces) . but the plane being historically correct in performance and the game AI being as kamikaze-aggressive as it is, this leads toa supremacy that was not there historically.
maybe the migs AI could be toned down specifically?
I don't know a thing about it so I don't know if possible...
but it helps the immersion to place some unarmed migs within a mission to compensate for the over aggressive leading migs.
- JIMMY99 - 09.03.2010
vampire_pilot Wrote:the problem is not the plane performance but the AI...
as can be read from accounts, most Migs behaved unagressive or could be chased away by fiing in their general direction and if attacking had poor aim
only the ace rusian pilots stood out (that is what made them aces) . but the plane being historically correct in performance and the game AI being as kamikaze-aggressive as it is, this leads toa supremacy that was not there historically.
maybe the migs AI could be toned down specifically?
I don't know a thing about it so I don't know if possible...
but it helps the immersion to place some unarmed migs within a mission to compensate for the over aggressive leading migs.
yeah, but that's a big problem for the reality of any korea mission....hope there is a solution around....But you sure that the MIG is not a little bit overpowered?
- JIMMY99 - 09.03.2010
JIMMY99 Wrote:vampire_pilot Wrote:the problem is not the plane performance but the AI...
as can be read from accounts, most Migs behaved unagressive or could be chased away by fiing in their general direction and if attacking had poor aim
only the ace rusian pilots stood out (that is what made them aces) . but the plane being historically correct in performance and the game AI being as kamikaze-aggressive as it is, this leads toa supremacy that was not there historically.
maybe the migs AI could be toned down specifically?
I don't know a thing about it so I don't know if possible...
but it helps the immersion to place some unarmed migs within a mission to compensate for the over aggressive leading migs.
yeah, but that's a big problem for the reality of any korea mission....hope there is a solution around....But you sure that the MIG is not a little bit overpowered?
Or maybe there is a problem with the sabre...
I install the F-86F manually from the SAS pack...Do you know if I have the good FM doing that?
- Bobbo - 09.03.2010
vampire_pilot Wrote:the problem is not the plane performance but the AI...
as can be read from accounts, most Migs behaved unagressive or could be chased away by fiing in their general direction and if attacking had poor aim
only the ace rusian pilots stood out (that is what made them aces) . but the plane being historically correct in performance and the game AI being as kamikaze-aggressive as it is, this leads toa supremacy that was not there historically.
maybe the migs AI could be toned down specifically?
I don't know a thing about it so I don't know if possible...
but it helps the immersion to place some unarmed migs within a mission to compensate for the over aggressive leading migs.
Toning done the "victory or death" mentality of the AI would help in the rest of the game to.
What the AI really needs is personalities for each pilots; recklessly brave, coward, sprays and prays things like that.