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Need help with Joystick intermittent delay problem - Printable Version

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Need help with Joystick intermittent delay problem - pugo3 - 20.12.2011

First post to this forum, thanks to anyone who can help with my trouble shooting this -

I have a gameing laptop as follows: Gateway P-7809u, Intel 2.53 ghz Duo Core x64, Nvidia Ge Force 9800 GTS, 4 GB RAM, Win 7 Home Premium [upgraded from original Vista]

I am presently pursuing the Tweaking/optimizing offerings of fireskull in this forum and have been optimizing only for performance with OpenGL. After editing the conf.ini and graphic card settings, I thought to dload the 4.52 software for my CH Products controllers. I mistakenly attributed a problem to this so I ended up uninstalling the 4.52 and re-installing 4.51. At this point I began to experience some joystick delays during dogfights, pulling up or moving the stick back [I only fly offline at present]; No hesitation appears in the controller calibration window, and it is an intermittent problem, not continually present.

I shortly thereafter went to DirectX from OpenGL, seeking aircraft performance improvements, my main goal of the aforementioned tweaking (for my computer, the DirectX is much preferred toward this end, ie precision of aircraft flight performance, especially at lower speeds vs pc performance re stutters, visuals, etc. , though I will further test OpenGL with setting changes) I uninstalled 4.51 and then attempted to install the CH Products software from the CD. I ended up creating some confusion to say the least, with scores of devices, Aux device, USB installed along with a flurry of drivers. I used Revo uninstaller, and think I have succeeded in removing all the devices, drivers and files from my computer, and am presently using my joystick and pedals with Windows game controllers to isolate the problem from possible CHPrdts corrupt drivers, etc.

I still am experiencing the intermittent elevator (only notice this axis interruption, obviously the most critical; may be all the axis). I experince this in other flight simms I have as well, so it's not Il-2 related per se. I need help identifying the possible sources of the control device interference. I saw from fireskull and other sources that certain conf.ini or graphic card settings can cause delays, so I'll try reduced settings. Here is my other causes list as I can see:

1) improper uninstalling of CH Products software/drivers
2) conf.ini and graphic c settings - lower 'load' [though my present settings are modest, again aiming at performance increases]
3) possibly related to switch to affinity mask=2 [??]
4) possibly related to Windows 7 Upgrade install over Vista
5) possibly related to a system glitch - some months ago I inadvertantly attached an Mac based wireless modem cable to my pc; seemed to cause a jumble at the time and the computer has been somewhat erratic since then, ie, desktop icons load slower, items load slower, nothing major but I've thought to go with a complete install of W7, but hoped to avoid this. I didn't encounter the joystick controller problem until just this past week as outlined above.
6) possibly related to the refurbished CombatFlight joystick having a defective sensor, but it's only 4 months since I had it repaired.

Any insights as to other causes or how to isolate the source would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for your time,

p3

Re: Need help with Joystick intermittent delay problem - Fireskull - 20.12.2011

Hi, and belated welcome to our community Smile


Since you tried several different software drivers and configurations, then I suspect a hardware issue. The same problem on different simulations would raise more suspicion of this.

It could be a faulty cord, joystick pot, or servo. If you can test with another joystick, then that would add to the probability.

There could be a non-hardware cause, but I think that it is probably hardware.

How old is your joystick and have you put many hours on it?


Fireskull

Re: Need help with Joystick intermittent delay problem - pugo3 - 21.12.2011

Hello and thank you for your reply, I want to let you know that your contributions on this forum are greatly appreciated by us non-tech kinda guys- I'm presently going over and trying to apply the information in your extensive posting re tweaking, optimizing, etc., very helpful and useful, thanks much.

As I mentioned above, I have a CH Products CombatStick (think that's the right name) and pedals. I bought them in 2007 and have had to send them in for repair several times. They send a 'like new' refurbished unit back, so it's not my original stick. One of the issues at one time was the elevator response seriously diminishing, intermittently, along with several non-functioning buttons. Someone from another forum stated " …sounds like your joystick is getting old. When the output from a potentiometer based stick starts to become unstable it can seriously affect performance in IL2." Yet as I mentioned, I just had a refurbished unit replacement some 2 or 3 months ago. It is still suspect as you said, and I will try another joystick and see how that goes, but the fact that this first occured a few days ago when I had the foul up installing and uninstalling the CHPrdts Control manager software and drivers is the reason I thought to inquire here.

I've read in your postings how FPS is adversely affected by AI, ground details (ie, cities, flak, etc.). Here is what I have observed: I will start a QM, with the 109E - before the AI opponent appears, I test horizontal level turns to the left, then right, back and forth the see the elevator response - beautiful, nice smooth quick response; same test with a quick pull up in the verticle, with good results. When I engage the AI [1 enemy only], the response then seems to slow, intermittently but often, and I have trouble getting my nose up, etc., which leads me to think it is some settings I have gotten wrong causing FPS to lower as does the ground detail, cities, etc. you pointed out. I may have made settings in my Nvidia Control panel that are in conflict with my Conf.ini [??], again, somewhat of a hacker.

I will be loading and using Fraps to view and measure frame rate drop - perhaps you could run the AI combat I mentioned above and give me the FPS drop you encounter before and after engaging the enemy AI [Spit Mk V in this case] so I can use that as a benchmark of sorts, if that's something you have time for.

I flew CF3 with the Firepower Add-on and MS FS2004 last nite to compare, and experienced this much less, just a few occasions, in each case causing me to crash on landing - elevator took a brief holiday!

Thanks very much for your assistance, again, very appreciated forum.

p3

Re: Need help with Joystick intermittent delay problem - {HVY-E}Jinxx - 21.12.2011

I had a very similar problem a while back.
Turned out to be a motherboard driver issue.
Make sure that you check to see if there is possible a new set of drivers for your motherboard on your laptop as well as a BIOS update.

The problem I had was with the Northbridge and the PCI Bus driver for the MB. After updating both and flashing the BIOS, everything was perfect.

S!

Re: Need help with Joystick intermittent delay problem - Fireskull - 22.12.2011

Now I am thinking that you have a memory usage problem.

Issue exists with different graphics configurations.

Problem appears when high memory demand is obvious.

A heavily taxed system can cause your computer to cut something in attempt to do everything.

What {HVY-E}Jinxx wrote is a possibility. I am also not abandoning the possibility of an issue with your joystick.

More than one problem at a time can occur.


Here's what you need to do next:

1) Unplug your joystick.
2) Fly the same mission without a joystick, using your keyboard to steer the plane. Have the AI on rookie status so you don't get shot soon.
3) Watch to see if there is any change in your elavator control.
4) Watch to see if FPS or stuttering changes.

If there is no change when taking the joystick out the picture, then the issue is not joystick related.

A change would indicate that the joystick software or hardware is the problem. (Slim chance, but both could be defective.)

You really need to do this procedure to be absolutely certain, even if you need to practice a few times with flying by keys.


By the way, FPS only changes in the lower single digits for me upon the appearance of AI and no change in input performance - not significant.


Fireskull

Re: Need help with Joystick intermittent delay problem - pugo3 - 29.12.2011

Hello, and thanks for all replys with suggestions. I've been out of town for the holidays and won't be able to pursue this until then, but here is a brief progress report:
I experienced some minor abnomalies with a few programs, and decided to use the Restore system to just before my mis-adventure with the driver install/uninstall. I successfully loaded the CHPrdts CM software and drivers, and I reloaded Il-2 and Mega patch to 4.10.1. My initial results are good so far, though I had to cut test flying short for the holiday travels. Seeing that I had the problem without the CH drivers, I'll have to wait and see if this was indeed the fix, but I will report back to this post.


Thanks again for the advise, will be in touch.

p3

Re: Need help with Joystick intermittent delay problem - pugo3 - 03.01.2012

Hello again,

It appears that the problem may have been using the CH Products 'mapped mode' with Il-2 rather than the 'Direct mode', as the controls operate fine thus far using direct mode, unmapped. Il-2 Forums are presently down for upgrading their site, so I cannot search to verify or not that Il-2 does or does not support CH Products mapped mode. I'm obviously not expert enough to say for certain this was the cause, but simply by the results after several flight sessions it appears to be, at least for my computer. I will post here if I find other pertinent information re this problem, for others who may be having this problem.

Thanks for the replys and good support to all.

p3

Re: Need help with Joystick intermittent delay problem - pugo3 - 09.01.2012

Well, some of you probably saw this coming: :roll:

the problem had nothing to do with CH Products mapped or unmapped [sorry for any mislead there]

There may be two separate or related issues:

One is a definite issue with the latest cerified Nvidia driver I had recently installed, yet was delayed by the holiday break from testing, so I didn't make the connection. I'm referring to the 285.62 Nvidia driver, and am now wiser re the need to 'wait and see' before upgrading to a new driver. I will need to restore my computer to before the driver install, so will report back to verify this was my problem.

The second issue may be related to the driver issue above, or a separate issue altogether - I went into the Physx section of the Nvidia Control panel and designated 'CPU' rather than the 9800m GTS card, or 'Auto Select' options. This gave immediate solution to the intermittent control input 'sticking' I had been experiencing, and dramatic improvement in the overall joystick input response. Playing again the second session, the 'sticking' was still no longer present, but as before I had mild stuttering, at least one complete 7 second freeze,tearing and generally diminished graphics performance, which I now believe to be the stated unstable 285.62 driver. I will clean install the recommended 275.33 previous driver after my system restore - this is reported to be a stable drive.

NOTE: for anyone thinking of using the later beta 290. series Nvidia drivers, I've read of either no solution with these or damage to the computer, so proceed with caution.

And for my fellow hackers, if you install a newer Nvidia driver, follow their advise and establish a restore point just before you install the driver. Your options are restore back to this point should the driver not work out, or roll back to the previous driver. I believe that you install the new driver without uninstalling the old in the newer drivers, and Nvidia install removes them, but I'm not sure. Find out the correct method so that you can roll back to the previous drivers rather than use the restore method - if you uninstall the drivers it might defeat this option, but again, not sure so you can research this yourself.

Re: Need help with Joystick intermittent delay problem - Fireskull - 09.01.2012

Okay, pugo3

We'll be looking forward to the results. Smile


Fireskull

Re: Need help with Joystick intermittent delay problem - pugo3 - 17.08.2012

UPDATE: POSSIBLE ELECTRICAL SURGE DAMAGE MAY EXPLAIN THIS PROBLEM

To help anyone else suffering the symptoms I outlined in this thread, here is an 8-2012 update. Note that all my flying is offline.

I now believe that my laptop sustained some electrical surge damage, which I believe was mostly absorbed by my CH Products Joystick at the time the surge occured, and yes, I have a surge protector/battery back up unit installed. This would also account for the defective USB I described, the surge dissapating into the USB and the Joystick and the CH joystick acting as a lighting rod, so to speak. This would also explaim why a recently factory refurbished CH unit began to exhibit nulls and other control problems so soon after my receiving it back.

A surge also explains a large part of the diminished aircraft performance, as now the AI mostly fly lazy evasive patterns rather than the aggressive characteristics they exhibited on my present Gateway Laptop and especially compared with my old XP/ATI Radeon 9000 set up (my 'Mystify' screen saver is also a lazier and slower pattern/performance, seeming to verify my conclusions]

Also, in the Crimea area, [I believe that's the one with the adjacent sea], the large Soviet ship accompanied by the 2 small craft is not rendered at all now. I believe my processor is damaged/diminished due to the surge, and therefore the decreased renderings and complexities of manuevre that I experience previously are absent or greatly lessened.

I still note the diminished performance of the aircraft vs my old computer with Pent. 4 and ATI Radeon 9000 card. I have since tested IL-2 on another computer loaded with XP, dual XEON processor, and Nvidia Quadro card, and have a replacement CH joystick . The performance is improved, the Soviet large vessel is rendered as before, the AI engage quite aggressively, but with all this it is still not as fast and furious as my old Toshiba laptop P4 ATI Radeon 9000. If anyone has likewise encountered this and can offer a solution, it would be wonderful. For now, I am enjoying offline flying as much as I can, but I will never forget the exhileration I had with my older Toshiba and Il-2. I only wish I would have saved some of the dogfights with Oscars 20' above the sea, canopy rolls and using flaps and throttle settings more than any other control, it was intoxicating!! Maybe with the next generation of software, I will be able to finally realize that level of fun again.

p3

Re: Need help with Joystick intermittent delay problem - pugo3 - 02.11.2012

Hello,

Just to give closure and perhaps help others having mysterious performance issues re flight characteristics, I now believe that my laptop had sustained damage by means of small surges that got through the battery back up/surge protector due to other AC devices being used on the same circuit, though not the same outlet. The CH Product joystick issue was most likely the result of being hit by a surge, theoretically it must have acted as a lighting rod and absorbed the spike. This would also explain the USB becoming faulty as well. I sent the laptop in the to a service center and they confirmed a damaged motherboard.

Bottom line, make certain that the AC circuit you use for your equipment is not shared with any other high draw electrical appliances, even with the unit turned off. So, if you notice the aircraft control having diminished, it may be that your computer has taken an electric surge hit, or just that your processor is slowing down and aging with use [I put alot of time on this unit, so normal wear becomes a factor]

Hopefully this might help someone else trying to pinpoint the reason for dimished performance - look for hardware issues along with if not before, software/driver issues.

p3