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Some questions about ww1 - madcat - 28.01.2012

Hi there

My sister saw this film Joyeux Noël the other day on iTune and was thinking about renting it, don't know if she did or not but any way. She came to me and was asking me questions about how true the story was behind the film and other stuff about WW1.

So I told her basically how WW1 started and how the army's where lined up etc... and as far as I was aware, yes the story behind the film about an unofficial truce one Christmas and them playing a game of football in the middle of No Man's Land was true. But some questions I couldn't answer or didn't know how to explain because I wasn't shore.

So I thought I would ask on here as some people seem to know a lot about WW1.

The questions;

1. Did the Christmas unofficial truce happen again or was it a one off ?

2. Did unofficial truces or fighting stop in other places along the lines ? (I said I think so and that hey would send in sharpshooters to start the fighting back up again, but not shore)

3. Would people get themselves captured on purpose to get out of fighting ? (I said I think so, depends how desperate you was)

4. Why didn't they just go round, like invade Denmark from Britain across the North Sea or invade Austro-Hungarian Empire from Italy across the Adriatic Sea ?

Thanks in advance Big Grin

Re: Some questions about ww1 - Jambo - 30.01.2012

Hi madcat,

I'll try to answer your question one by one:

One of the reasons for this film was the fact that a couple of years ago in Saxon or Thuringia (I'm not quite sure) a guy cleaning the attic of his parents house,
found a trunk with a few diaries of his grandfather, written in a strange or secretly stenography - nobody understood. Interesting enough there was a book
explaining everything as well. So this guy learned and translated all of these diaries one by one and learned about the Christmas truce in 1914 from his Grandfather
who was a Lieutenant then and a part of this Truce.

I don't know if you can purchase this book in English but it's telling this and a lot more stories:
"The little peace in the Great War"
http://www.amazon.com/Kleine-Frieden-Gr ... 005&sr=8-1

Look at the picture of the cover there - these are German and English soldiers in 1914 at the Christmas truce!


1. Did the Christmas unofficial truce happen again or was it a one off ?
It did happen again but at a much smaller scale.
In 1914 the war was just a few months old - in 1915, well over a year with much bloodshed and suffering on both sides.
But even in 1916 and 1917 there was a truce here and there..
A lot of things changed....
It is told, that soldiers from both sides were shooting above the heads of their enemies for weeks after Christmas...
Only when the artilleries start to fire they had casualties.

2. Did unofficial truces or fighting stop in other places along the lines ? (I said I think so and that hey would send in sharpshooters to start the fighting back up again, but not shore)
It started and took place mostly where the troops from Saxon and Bavaria where positioned. Most if not all of these soldiers where Catholics and more religiously than the
troops of Prussia. So it was possible that in the northern part of a sector i.e. the Saxons fought, there was a truce, in the middle part - Prussians - fighting, in the south part
the Bavarians - truce. A very strange situation if you think about it....


3. Would people get themselves captured on purpose to get out of fighting ? (I said I think so, depends how desperate you was)
In WWI it wasn't that common to surrender or to take POW's unless there was a hole group of soldiers...
As gruel as it sounds - but there was no time and no real feelings about your enemy as a human.. Kill or get killed....
But like always exceptions prove the rule.
Like in WWI Japan fought as an Allied against Germany and they took German prisoners.
And these POW's were treated after the Geneva Convention, with nothing to complain....

... if you were lucky and your opponent a human being - you lived!

4. Why didn't they just go round, like invade Denmark from Britain across the North Sea or invade Austro-Hungarian Empire from Italy across the Adriatic Sea ?
A good question - and I really don't no the answer. A few reasons come into my mind but nothing to proof.
Like Denmark was neutral and Britain respect that - or they just did not had the manpower to do it, the constant pressure from the Germans on the western front was to strong...
And WWI wasn't only in Europe! The Germans fought in Africa, the Mideast and so on... the Turkish fought against the Britain Empire...


In every German village and town you'll find today an memorial of the fallen soldiers from WWII, WWI and wars before that.
But with WWII and the ferociousness the Germans committed - WWI isn't that common in Germans history lessons and minds as it should be.
In France, Britain and so on it is totally different!

Hope I could answer a bit..

Jambo :wink:

P.S. Please remember, this film Joyeux Noel - is a film!
I saw it as well and I still got the DVD
You have to evaluate this film for your own... :wink:

P.P.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce

Re: Some questions about ww1 - madcat - 30.01.2012

Thanks for answering Jambo

That's really interesting to here how the film came about, so with out that guy cleaning the attic we would never have any first accounts of what really happened. Talking about cleaning out the attic or as I say the loft, we did that the other week and found my great granddads medals from the first world war. Think there campaign medals and for doing your duty for your country, have to look them up to be shore.

Just out of interest have you ever heard about the "Peace Day Riots" because my great granddad and my family in general are from around Luton, find it very ironic they burnt down Luton town hall wile singing "Keep the home fires burning".

Any way, about Question 4. Yeah I did explain to her that was fighting in different places all over the world not just in Europe, but I was a bit surprised when my sister asked "why they didn't just go round" because that's a good question and one I have never every thought about or heard / read about any where before. The only thing that came to my mind was the Gallipoli Campaign as to my knowledge that was the only large amphibious invasion of ww1 and that was a disaster. So given that and the fact you had the German fleet in the North and the Austrian fleet in the South they thought it to risky try an amphibious invasion else where?

Re: Some questions about ww1 - Jambo - 31.01.2012

Hi madcat,

it's a pleasure!

Yesterday I wrote this quick and out of my memory...

After thinking a bit more, I'm sorry for the confusion - it might be, that the producer Christian Carion of this film was indeed inspired from the book „Batailles de Flandres et d’Artois“ from Yves Buffetaut,
and the writer of the book "Der kleine Frieden im großen Krieg" - "A little peace in the Great War" was inspired from the story I told.
The name of the lieutenant was "Kurt Zemisch". I'm not quite sure either ( :oops: ) but I think he was initiator of this truce or at least he played a main part in it.
He is from Plauen.
And his son found his 15 diaries in 1998.
Anyway - I'm quite sure his diaries did matter too - for the book and the film.

Christian Carion was very thorough when he searched the background of the Christmas Truce in 1914.

Last but not least - it is the most beautiful thought in my mind - that whatever mankind or human beings can think or do of Barbarousness,
there will be always, at least, a little piece of philanthropy / humanity with someone! And if this little piece isn't forgotten there is always a change
for piece for mankind.

Jambo :wink:

Re: Some questions about ww1 - caldrail - 01.02.2012

madcat Wrote:So I thought I would ask on here as some people seem to know a lot about WW1.

The questions;

1. Did the Christmas unofficial truce happen again or was it a one off ?
Just a one off at the end of 1914, though I imagine fighting was somewhat less consistent around the festive season as troops on both sides attempted to raise their morale. After it was obvious that the war wasn't going to end soon, not to mention the increasing indifference to suffering experienced by the troops, the urge to say hello to the enemy was considerably less advisable after.

Quote:2. Did unofficial truces or fighting stop in other places along the lines ? (I said I think so and that hey would send in sharpshooters to start the fighting back up again, but not shore)
There may have been localised lulls in fighting. I do know that toward the end of the war most armies tended to hang back and not worry too much with the end obviously in sight, apart from the americans whose commanders were keen to score victories before they went home. Allied losses in the last month of the war are heavily weighted toward american troops.

Quote:3. Would people get themselves captured on purpose to get out of fighting ? (I said I think so, depends how desperate you was)
Yes. That's inevitable in any war. There's always a small number who decide that the war isn't for them. Also, there's at least one recorded instance of a soldier (a british artilleryman) who couldn't stand the constant privations any more. He got up and walked into No Man's Land simply so a german sniper would shoot him dead. He got his wish. Rather more famous were the mutinies on the allied side. The french wobbled dangerously at one point while british soldiers who objected to continuing service in the trenches were lined up and shot after a court martial - though I should point out that the decision to execute was down to General Haig himself, and apparently he was suprisingly lenient, contrary to reputation.

Quote:4. Why didn't they just go round, like invade Denmark from Britain across the North Sea or invade Austro-Hungarian Empire from Italy across the Adriatic Sea ?
Amphibious operations weren't so easy then - the hardware wasn't available, and Churchills attempt to outflank the Central Powers in the Dardanelles proved that such operations were inherently risky. Both sides believed that sooner or later they would break out of the relatively static trench lines and be in the enemy capital shortly after. Of course that didn't happen, though the allies began to penetrate german lines in 1918 with some success as the central powers weakened., so on a smaller scale breakthroughs and encirclements were going on toward the end.