HSFX aircraft ground modelling - Printable Version
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+--- Thread: HSFX aircraft ground modelling (/showthread.php?tid=75025)
HSFX aircraft ground modelling - K_Freddie - 25.08.2012
I never noticed this with stock IL2, bu there seems to be a 'bug' in the Fw190A5's ground handling - it's terrible.
I've got the v601 + history mod (I think it is) and was on an AcesOverEurope server.
Take off handling is no problem, but on landing Tail Wheel locked/unlocked, left/right turn, full differential brakes and throttle up and down == Nudder/nothing
I'm not sure whether this extends across aircraft and/or maps.
Re: HSFX aircraft ground modelling - Fireskull - 25.08.2012
Hi, Freddie
Try this exact model aircraft with the same load-out and the identical map and same mods but offline to see if it still happens. If the problem disappears with this test, then it would be a server issue.
Fireskull
Re: HSFX aircraft ground modelling - K_Freddie - 26.08.2012
Thanks.. No need to worry about which map or aircraft..
I did a Quick Mission on the old Normandy1 map and there is a problem getting any FW to turn right on the ground in HSFX, and it's not much of a problem in stock (not perfect but ok)
I had to get the FW rolling a bit before I could do a LH-Dohnut. In stock I can do a Dohnut in both directions from standstill.
Trying to do just a RH turn I'd throttle it, get it rolling and cut throttle and jam RH rudder and RH brakes - not much luck
I also think that the throttle up time is too slow - engine reaction time from throttle application.
Once at speed there's not much of a problem, but when hardly moving, ground handling is nearly impossible.
I have 2 offline tracks from Stock and HSFX601+history mod, but nowhere to post them
Re: HSFX aircraft ground modelling - Fireskull - 27.08.2012
K_Freddie,
Here's why I feel that the HSFX is better modelled on these issues than the stock planes:
1) Engine and propeller torque should make it harder to turn one way compared to the other way.
2) Some planes need to roll forward to make turning easier and this is normal.
3) Rudder does have an effect on ground turning if you increase or cut throttle. There should actually be a change in turning characterstic, complicated by adding rudder effect, engine/propeller torque, and how these act upon brake application in combination.
4) In real life war ground crew sometimes assisted in getting an aircraft to overcome rough ground parking areas, which won't help you. In IL-2 the ground does increase resistance compared to paved tarmacs and runways.
5) I am not sure how wind affects the aircraft on the ground in IL-2 but it might make it more difficult at times.
6) Some German fighters had lousy brakes for a fact.
7) Every fighter should feel a little different in handling on the ground.
It should always be much harder to turn an FW from a stop or very slow moving than when there is a little speed.
I hope this helps.
Fireskull
Re: HSFX aircraft ground modelling - -)-MAILMAN- - 17.09.2012
Fireskull Wrote:K_Freddie,
Here's why I feel that the HSFX is better modelled on these issues than the stock planes:
1) Engine and propeller torque should make it harder to turn one way compared to the other way.
2) Some planes need to roll forward to make turning easier and this is normal.
3) Rudder does have an effect on ground turning if you increase or cut throttle. There should actually be a change in turning characterstic, complicated by adding rudder effect, engine/propeller torque, and how these act upon brake application in combination.
4) In real life war ground crew sometimes assisted in getting an aircraft to overcome rough ground parking areas, which won't help you. In IL-2 the ground does increase resistance compared to paved tarmacs and runways.
5) I am not sure how wind affects the aircraft on the ground in IL-2 but it might make it more difficult at times.
6) Some German fighters had lousy brakes for a fact.
7) Every fighter should feel a little different in handling on the ground.
It should always be much harder to turn an FW from a stop or very slow moving than when there is a little speed.
I hope this helps.
Fireskull
Well in real planes they had a left wheel brake and right wheel brake independent of each other. This aided them in turning tightly such as K_Freddie mentioned when he described doughnuts. The rudder would also move to aid in the turning. We have brakes apply to both left and right wheels when the brakes are applied. This is something that needs to be looked into. Try taxiing with a P-38 with only one engine running, it is impossible to roll straight on the ground, yet I have seen footage of them taxiing around with only one engine running or at least with the prop feathered.
-)-MAILMAN-
Re: HSFX aircraft ground modelling - Fireskull - 18.09.2012
-)-MAILMAN- ,
That's all true, but game engine computer programming language code might not allow such a change, at least for most programmers. If it does allow it, then recompiling things might be a huge task and cause a big delay or major sacrifice in the next HSFX. It sure would be nice if it could be done quick and easy.
Fireskull
Re: HSFX aircraft ground modelling - -)-MAILMAN- - 18.09.2012
I am just hoping either TD does it or some mod maker can make right and left wheel braking possible at some future date. I was simply pointing out that the real aircraft had independent wheel braking. I play AH2 and it has right and left wheel brakes. I haven't played any of the CFS games lately, but I believe they had right and left wheel brakes.
-)-MAILMAN-
Re: HSFX aircraft ground modelling - santobr - 20.09.2012
1946 doesn't have separate brakes, but it uses the rudder axis to control the braking force in one wheel or another to all its airplanes.
It's the same system used by a real IL-2 Sturmovik, it has one braking control at the stick, but you can control the force of braking on each wheel by the rudder pedals. :wink:
santobr.
Re: HSFX aircraft ground modelling - -)-MAILMAN- - 20.09.2012
santobr Wrote:1946 doesn't have separate brakes, but it uses the rudder axis to control the braking force in one wheel or another to all its airplanes.
It's the same system used by a real IL-2 Sturmovik, it has one braking control at the stick, but you can control the force of braking on each wheel by the rudder pedals. :wink:
santobr.
I know that 1946 doesn't have separate brakes, which was the point I was making. It has been the same since the original IL-2 Sturmovik game came out so your explanation on how to control the braking is not a revelation nor very clever. It is simply stating the obvious which is what we have had to do all of these years. This braking feature could be made better and maybe one of the talented mod makers out there can make it happen.
Now to address your assertion that the rudder axis is used to control the braking force in one wheel or another for all its airplanes. The rudder axis does no such thing. We can push either toe brake and the brake force is applied equally to both wheels. By pushing the rudder pedals you are simply attempting to swing the tail to one side or another and does nothing to control the braking force. All the rudder does is try to overcome the brake force of the wheel that should be free wheeling which is on the opposite side of the direction you are trying to turn. I got this answer straight from Oleg when I asked this question at the 1C Forums several years ago. If we had separate wheel brakes it is a fact we could turn in a tighter radius than we can now. Just because it was done for the Ilyushin Il-2 does not mean it is correct for all aircraft in the game. It just makes it easier for someone with a twist stick rudder and a key/button and no pedals/toe brakes.
Please don't put a link here demonstrating how your method works. It was done when this subject was brought up a few years ago at the All Aircraft Arcade Forums. :wink:
-)-MAILMAN-