[Anders_And]

Really is it?
Above 5km it competes with the Dora, P51 and the Ta152.
Its hard for the P47 to outrun it at 9km. Is it really that much of a beast up at 8-9-10km???

Or is maybe the FM wrong at hi alt, much like the Tempest 11lbs...????

[Paulo Hirth]

IL-2 have good FM in ~80% planes, but 20% deserve a well done revision, based in trusted
data.
Planes like Hellcat, Yak-3, P-51, Ta-152C are under and Spitfire , La, 109G2 are uber, my vision.

[RedChico]

Really is it?
Above 5km it competes with the Dora, P51 and the Ta152.
Its hard for the P47 to outrun it at 9km. Is it really that much of a beast up at 8-9-10km???

Or is maybe the FM wrong at hi alt, much like the Tempest 11lbs...????

Is it your opinnion or do you have data to suport that?

[md_wild_weasel]

IL-2 have good FM in ~80% planes, but 20% deserve a well done revision, based in trusted
data.
Planes like Hellcat, Yak-3, P-51, Ta-152C are under and Spitfire , La, 109G2 are uber, my vision.

spitfire was uber in real life, a perfect plane which pilots loved and people alike .
Infact I think the Fm is slightly under modelled, but hey i never flew one so what would i know?. sorry Paulo but i get constantly offended by the "spitfire is uber people"usually by some one who likes flying the dora (and incorrectly i might add) . If you get a decent pilot in a 109 or FW the spitfire becomes cannon fodder. Basically the spitffire lacks in range and top speed .Well untill the later models that is Also my squad m8 also pointed out that the Ta152 is correctly modelled to just under 2kph . So with out sounding to offensive learn your planes.

[AIRdomination]

Here we go again.... :roll:

[sonko]

which one of the me410 do you mean? the latest model is a beast but the earlier ones are rather slow.

[Anders_And]

Ok guys I asked about the Me410 not the spitfires!!
Yes I meant the latest model 1944 I think it is!

[DDDD]

Yes I agree that the 410 seems a better machine in the sim that was suppossed to be in real combat.
I always thought that the mosquito was (at least slighly) better a/c than the 410, but...

About the FM of the spit I think that more or less is correct specially in turning and handling performances. I don

[Paulo Hirth]

IL-2 have good FM in ~80% planes, but 20% deserve a well done revision, based in trusted
data.
Planes like Hellcat, Yak-3, P-51, Ta-152C are under and Spitfire , La, 109G2 are uber, my vision.

spitfire was uber in real life, a perfect plane which pilots loved and people alike .
Infact I think the Fm is slightly under modelled, but hey i never flew one so what would i know?. sorry Paulo but i get constantly offended by the "spitfire is uber people"usually by some one who likes flying the dora (and incorrectly i might add) . If you get a decent pilot in a 109 or FW the spitfire becomes cannon fodder. Basically the spitffire lacks in range and top speed .Well untill the later models that is Also my squad m8 also pointed out that the Ta152 is correctly modelled to just under 2kph . So with out sounding to offensive learn your planes.

Maybe your squad m8 dont test and compare the IN GAME vs RL DATA like i did, this isnt only my opnion or passion is historic test data.

(The link is inoperative)

(The link is inoperative)
i am v

[I/JG27_Waggel]

Regarding to the bf 410 I can not say a lot because I do not have engine data and I did not fly this plane in game yet.

I have to go a little bit off topic because I read the line the real Spitfire was uber.

In 1940 the Spit I was not uber. The Bf 109 Emil and the spit where equal. Every plane had advantages and disadvantages but all in one it was a question of tactic and pilot.

Go into the year 1941. Battle of Briain is over and new models arrived at the channel. Spit V for the RAF and Bf 109 for the Luftwaffe. Still both planes where very equal.

Go to 1942 and say " ... the spitfire is uber ... " to a RAF pilot. He will put a tired smile on his face.

Between the end of 1941 up to early 1943 the spitfire was massively outclassed by the FW-190.

Go to the archives and try to find the letter written by William Sholto Douglas, commander of the RAF fighter command in 1942. This letter was written in July 1942 (Stanmore, Middlesex, FC/S 29470, 17. July 1942)

In summer 1942 the spit IX came to the squads in small numbers. Over 7500m meter this plane outclassed the 190 but in lower regions the 190 still had more advantages. It was a question of the tactics and the pilots. Over 7500 meters the 109 still was an equal opponent to the spitfire.

In early 1943 the first HF and LF versions of the spit IX came to the squads. In high alitude the HF mk IX totaly outclassed the 190 and in low altitudes the LF version could eat most of the 190 advantages.
When the 190 A-5 arrived (overworked BMW 801D motor), the 190 again was the superior in low altitudes.

In IL-2 most spitfires are really climb monsters. The Vb and the IX still had the problem that the engine had no directly injection. In roles and when you put the stick forward, the motor lost power. It was not so massive like in the Spit I but it was still present.

The spitfire was a very good fighter plane but I whould not call it as uber. Like the 109 the spitfire reached its limits in the middle of the war. New fighters like the Focke Wulf and the P51 mustang had much more potential development in the long run. The RAF missed to bring out a new fighter generation. The development of the typhoon took a long time and this plane was no fighter plane caused by massive structure problems. It had a very powerfull motor but the acceleration took a long time and the climb rate was very bad. Like the 190 and the P47 it was an eycellent ground attacker.

In IL-2 we have a lot of wonder planes and other planes are massivly downgraded.

We still do not have planeset groups to make an accurate map.

For example 1942 missing planes:

early spit IX
spit Vb with RAF FM
hawker typhoon
wellington

109 G2 with corret FM
109 G1 high altitude fighter
FW 190 A-1 (ready but not released)
FW 190 A-2 (ready but not released)
FW 190 A-4 (ready but not released)

At the moment we spent too much time in the development of "fun" planes. We should work on the main fighters and bombers first to create planeset groups. Later we can spent our time in making fun planes our planes that only where produced in low numbers.

Ok ... sorry for the off topic ... brainstorming :roll:

[DK-nme]

Regarding to the bf 410 I can not say a lot because I do not have engine data and I did not fly this plane in game yet.

I have to go a little bit off topic because I read the line the real Spitfire was uber.

In 1940 the Spit I was not uber. The Bf 109 Emil and the spit where equal. Every plane had advantages and disadvantages but all in one it was a question of tactic and pilot.

Go into the year 1941. Battle of Briain is over and new models arrived at the channel. Spit V for the RAF and Bf 109 for the Luftwaffe. Still both planes where very equal.

Go to 1942 and say " ... the spitfire is uber ... " to a RAF pilot. He will put a tired smile on his face.

Between the end of 1941 up to early 1943 the spitfire was massively outclassed by the FW-190.

Go to the archives and try to find the letter written by William Sholto Douglas, commander of the RAF fighter command in 1942. This letter was written in July 1942 (Stanmore, Middlesex, FC/S 29470, 17. July 1942)

In summer 1942 the spit IX came to the squads in small numbers. Over 7500m meter this plane outclassed the 190 but in lower regions the 190 still had more advantages. It was a question of the tactics and the pilots. Over 7500 meters the 109 still was an equal opponent to the spitfire.

In early 1943 the first HF and LF versions of the spit IX came to the squads. In high alitude the HF mk IX totaly outclassed the 190 and in low altitudes the LF version could eat most of the 190 advantages.
When the 190 A-5 arrived (overworked BMW 801D motor), the 190 again was the superior in low altitudes.

In IL-2 most spitfires are really climb monsters. The Vb and the IX still had the problem that the engine had no directly injection. In roles and when you put the stick forward, the motor lost power. It was not so massive like in the Spit I but it was still present.

The spitfire was a very good fighter plane but I whould not call it as uber. Like the 109 the spitfire reached its limits in the middle of the war. New fighters like the Focke Wulf and the P51 mustang had much more potential development in the long run. The RAF missed to bring out a new fighter generation. The development of the typhoon took a long time and this plane was no fighter plane caused by massive structure problems. It had a very powerfull motor but the acceleration took a long time and the climb rate was very bad. Like the 190 and the P47 it was an eycellent ground attacker.

In IL-2 we have a lot of wonder planes and other planes are massivly downgraded.

We still do not have planeset groups to make an accurate map.

For example 1942 missing planes:

early spit IX
spit Vb with RAF FM
hawker typhoon
wellington

109 G2 with corret FM
109 G1 high altitude fighter
FW 190 A-1 (ready but not released)
FW 190 A-2 (ready but not released)
FW 190 A-4 (ready but not released)

At the moment we spent too much time in the development of "fun" planes. We should work on the main fighters and bombers first to create planeset groups. Later we can spent our time in making fun planes our planes that only where produced in low numbers.

Ok ... sorry for the off topic ... brainstorming :roll:

Well spoken, and I have to agree too a certain point. I have to reckon, that my judgement or knowledge of the topic could be wrong - my knowledge exclusively comes from reading alot of history books about avionics, but I know, that a lot of these books weren't written by real planejockeys or aeronautical engineers. We also seem to forget in all of this meaning-debates or just simply miss the fact, that the plane who in the end wins the battle (in the air and in the real world) is the one who is numerical superior and not so much which plane is individually better. Hence the superiority of german planes in the beginning of the war and later the total allied airsuperiority...


DK-nme

[RAF_Magpie]

Here we go again.... :roll:

No. We're not. This is the start of a crack down on such threads... Be careful in future...