[benson]

..a mod out there or simply a way to do this? I have always thought this ' dogfighting to the death ' which I always get in SP missions, to be very unrealistic.
Regards.

[TinyTim]

What exactly do you mean by "limiting"? AI planes have limited ammo by default, even the gunners. It's just that some aircraft carry absurdly lotsa bullets, like Bf109E for the cowling machineguns - 1000rpg, which amounts to a whole minute of fire duration. Another planes that come to mind with extremely long ammo duration are Fw190A4/5/6 and A6M2 for cowling guns, IAR81 for light MGs, I'm sure there are others.

So, you'd like to limit it to, say, 30% or 50% of normal ammo load?

[benson]

TinyTim. Thanks for your answer. Yes that's it exactly.I feel that if I could cut the amount of ammunition the planes are carrying, then maybe they would just take a few passes at each other before breaking off ( or getting a kill of course). This is how it was I believe in real dogfights, not aircaft slugging it out for ages until one or the other was shot down.
Regards.

[shakthamac]

by changing fuel loads you can also govern when they break off and head for home.

that feature already exists in game

[benson]

Yesterday I set up an experiment where I gave two AI aircraft a small amount of fuel and then sent them off on a flight around several airfields with the final waypoint at the airfield they had taken off from. They made no attempt to land at any of the other fields but just flew on till they ran out of fuel then crashed. :?

[TinyTim]

TinyTim. Thanks for your answer. Yes that's it exactly.I feel that if I could cut the amount of ammunition the planes are carrying, then maybe they would just take a few passes at each other before breaking off ( or getting a kill of course). This is how it was I believe in real dogfights, not aircaft slugging it out for ages until one or the other was shot down.
Regards.

That also wouldn't be completely unhistorical! Many german fighters flew with less than full ammoload towards the end of the war due to ammo shortage, that's what I read at least... I recall reading somewhere that La7s in the last days of war flew with only 40 rounds per gun, because they had such enormous numerical superiority. 10 vs 1 it still ment 800 rounds fired at a single german plane, if all La7s exhausted 40 rpg each.

by changing fuel loads you can also govern when they break off and head for home.

that feature already exists in game

Yeah, that's true. Steps of 25% in QMB are quite large, but you can set the fuel accourately to 1% in the full mission builder.

[benson]

In the FMB I found that if I set up one Allied and one Axis aircraft, put them on a collision course with a fuel setting of '15', they will fly past each other several times without firing their guns. If I set the fuel setting to '16' they then seem to spend as much time fighting each other as if I had set the fuel to '100'. Either this test is too simplistic or the fuel settings don't make that much difference. :?
Regards

[Tigershark]

What exactly do you mean by "limiting"? AI planes have limited ammo by default, even the gunners. It's just that some aircraft carry absurdly lotsa bullets, like Bf109E for the cowling machineguns - 1000rpg, which amounts to a whole minute of fire duration. Another planes that come to mind with extremely long ammo duration are Fw190A4/5/6 and A6M2 for cowling guns, IAR81 for light MGs, I'm sure there are others.

So, you'd like to limit it to, say, 30% or 50% of normal ammo load?

Actually, ya, I dont understand... I thought they had a default set of ammo too...??


If anything, I think the opposite, we shouldnt narrow the ammo down... I think we ought to give them unlimited ammo...

Too often, in quick missions, the AI will exhaust all their ammo, and then begin aimlessly flying around at their last waypoint.... Even when enemy planes are nearby... They will just keep orbiting one area... I thought this might be solved if they had unlimited ammo, and they would duke it out...


TS

[shakthamac]

In the FMB I found that if I set up one Allied and one Axis aircraft, put them on a collision course with a fuel setting of '15', they will fly past each other several times without firing their guns. If I set the fuel setting to '16' they then seem to spend as much time fighting each other as if I had set the fuel to '100'. Either this test is too simplistic or the fuel settings don't make that much difference. :?
Regards

i havent messed with this since i started using the mods, but in a campaign i was building way back when, i needed some fighters to engage for a few minutes and then head for home. these were jap planes and it took place over water. IIRC, i had to disengage first, and then they followed suit, instead of pursuing me for ages like they usually do.

[creamy]

ummm did you also set a homebase for the 2 fighters to land?

[benson]

Hi Creamy. No I didn't. Thanks for the tip. Thing is although I've collected all the IL2 series through the years, it's only now with full scale maps like asheshouses Battle of France coming on the scene that I'm looking into the settings for stuff like ammunition levels and fuel with a view to making the game (to my own personal standards) realistic.
Regards

[Bidule021]

I found that in creating coop, If you put the AI on rookie and average for the lead, thay usually (85%) do not steal kill and only follow the leader. If it is for your wingman, just tell him to rejoin instead of covering you and again he wont stal kills

[Kopfdorfer]

It would be a great benefit to mission designers to be able to access the ammo loads (at least for fighters) and in fact a damage outline for each involved aircraft. Ideally, one could even set a (random) - I know computer people hate that word! - generator for mechanical breakdowns based on the date, theatre and aircraft type which could reflect things like fuel quality for the Germans late in the war, the propensity for early Hispano 20mm cannons to jam in high G maneouvres, the poor quality of Japanese early war radios, the tendency for (was it only?) German aircraft hit in the hydraulic reservoir during combat to have one or both oleos to drop down in the middle of the fray, and I'm sure you guys could come up with dozens.
This would be so good for immersion level, and if it was an on/off toggle in the realism menu for pilots those who weren't interested in dealing with the ficke hand of fate as well as the enemy could just turn it off.

This would enable you to design a scenario where a flight of fighters is sent out to shepherd a damaged bomber back to base...the ability to do this was available as far back as CFS1, I believe.

Any Takers?

von Kopfdorfer

[Th!rdeye]

It would be a great benefit to mission designers to be able to access the ammo loads (at least for fighters) and in fact a damage outline for each involved aircraft. Ideally, one could even set a (random) - I know computer people hate that word! - generator for mechanical breakdowns based on the date, theatre and aircraft type which could reflect things like fuel quality for the Germans late in the war, the propensity for early Hispano 20mm cannons to jam in high G maneouvres, the poor quality of Japanese early war radios, the tendency for (was it only?) German aircraft hit in the hydraulic reservoir during combat to have one or both oleos to drop down in the middle of the fray, and I'm sure you guys could come up with dozens.
This would be so good for immersion level, and if it was an on/off toggle in the realism menu for pilots those who weren't interested in dealing with the ficke hand of fate as well as the enemy could just turn it off.

This would enable you to design a scenario where a flight of fighters is sent out to shepherd a damaged bomber back to base...the ability to do this was available as far back as CFS1, I believe.

Any Takers?

von Kopfdorfer

This is will not happen anytime soon. Way to complicated and IL-2 doesn't even model most of those things.

[Kopfdorfer]

IL-2 not modelling those things is the point. Those failures are all already (somewhere) in the game code - they all happen at some time or another in the game, therefore in my no-expert opinion, the problem is not as huge as you suggest. I am not saying it would be simple, or it would already be done. I am just showing the bar. One bar - and there are many! My proposition was simply for someone who understands writing code, and or java to consider adding a path that includes a random generator that leads to these events once in a while if certain paramaters are set by the campaign/mission designer.
And for you to say it isn't going to happen means that you are not going to make it happen and that's okay.
For those of us (me, and I think some others who lurk at AAA) who are into maximum history and maximum immersion, this would be a fantastic game enhancer. For some of us there are more ways to enhance the game than more aircraft and maps(which I love). I was simply looking - and will continue to - for other ways.
I think there are other people here who feel the same way, I am just hoping that either one of them is adept at writing code and willing to take it on, or I can tweak the interest of one of you codewriters when you are looking for a somewhat different challenge.

Thanks for answering.

von Kopfdorfer