[Muas]

I remember "The Coffin" was a third party project for PACIFIC FIGHTERS.
Then the Grumman/Douglas rights discussion came out and... never heard of it anymore.



I bet this exterior model must be around somewhere...

[SturmGuy]

yes someone started to wrk back on it, but never replied in one of his posts

[American]

I Don't get it did they copy write a plane?

[jak24610]

Why do they call it the coffin? hock:

[psychobob]

Due to its very high loss rate.

[poncho]

I Don't get it did they copy write a plane?

Yea, There was the big hangup with the Avenger etc. Had Oleg packaged it as the Avenger he would have been OK. But when he labeled it as the Grumman Avenger the Northrup Grumman copyright lawyers came down on him like a ton of bricks. That is why so many Grumman aircraft were left out. Even though the Devastator was made by The Douglas corp. I think his experience with Northrup made him kind of gun shy (or pissed off) about including US aircraft.

[Murph]

I think someone at UBI (perhaps not Oleg himself) thought they could get away with using US aircraft manufacturer's copy written material without asking permission or paying royalties. They got caught.
If a copy write is not defended, it gets lost, and sets a precedent for further infringements.
In any case, it seems to have been decided that no additional US aircraft would be included.
Judging from the way non-lend lease US aircraft have been presented ( who else remembers the horrible box radiator on the original P 51 ?) I think Oleg had no real interest in US aircraft anyways, and only begrudgingly included them, probably because he thought it would help sell copies of the game ( which is quite true ).
Just my two cents- you need not agree.

[XabaRus-1]

when you say copy righted material how do you mean? I know this argument went on ages ago but that was before I had IL-2. I cuoldn't see what grounds Grumman had to do them for making a 3d model of a plane unless it was the use of Grumman they were upset about.

[agracier]

Copyright discussions can assume the most ridiculous heights (or rather depths) when corporations try to enforce the proposition that anything at all having to do with their product falls under copyright. How anyone can argue that a (very inaccurate at that) 3D model in pixels on a screen has anything to do with an actual flying machine made of steel and wood and tons of material and instruments, is beyond me.

I think it must have something to do with uncontrollable greed and arrogance. As if anyone is going to order one more or less (totally obsolete) Devastator aircraft because of their inclusion in a game.

Besides, you'd think that normally a corporation would scamper to get even a passing mention in such a successful and admired product like Il-2.

And I wonder - does the History Channel and National Geographic get this kind of grief when they show historical documentaries and show actual footage of these planes in flight? And what do authors do when they write historical reference works about aircraft? Do they beg and grovel and pay for permission to use the words and names of the aircraft?

[mavyalex]

Absolutely agracier!

[BlitzPig_EL]

The actual wording of the N-G copyright covers the design, name, and image of anything produced by any company that now falls under the Northrup-Grumman corporate umbrella. This also includes a couple of USN ships that we should have gotten in PF that got axed because they were laid down in shipyards that are now owned by N-G.

There is nothing new or out of the ordinary about this. Plastic model companies have been paying royalties to major corporations for years to be able to produce "facsimiles" of say, WW2 aircraft.

I think it's silly, but that's how it is.

[mig88]

I agree that it's ridiculous. It's only recently that kits have been showing up with "Produced under license by...". I may be wrong but it seems to be only American aero-related companies (engine manufacturers included).

I also personally think it's a matter of greed, making bucks from whatever they can, as if they didn't make enough already!!

[DK-nme]

I agree that it's ridiculous. It's only recently that kits have been showing up with "Produced under license by...". I may be wrong but it seems to be only American aero-related companies (engine manufacturers included).

I also personally think it's a matter of greed, making bucks from whatever they can, as if they didn't make enough already!!

I think You're absolutely F***ing right here. Patent goes for the protection of a product, productname of stuff already in buisness - yet obtainable in stores or elsewhere - and meant as a protection against copy-cats (understanably). But this, talking of brand and copyright of something, that haven't been produced for more than 60 years, is absolutely ludicriss...


DK-nme

[DK-nme]

It's the same problem with music. Big money investors controlling the rights of say the Beatles, Elvis, Mozart and many others, without having had anything to do with the proces of making the music. Some of this, due to the fact, that many of the artists have been dead for ages.
Not seldomly, nothing goes for the original families, leftbehinds (wife's and so on).

This form of money-speculation is mere greed, than to protect something historically and aestetic valuable to society - kapitalism in its worst form!!!


DK-nme