[jzoopster49]

But do a few otherse wish people would put some of their undeniable talent and effort going into complete fantasy planes like the G10NI and various Luft '46 designs into actual airplanes that actually flew? There are lots of important aircraft which actually contributed in WW2 which are missing (Helldiver, Ki-44, Defiant, Meteor, etc). There are other planes (like the J7W, G8N, Me-264, B-35, B-36, Vampire) which could realistically be placed in hypothetical '46+ scenarios - and I hope they get finished. But the G10N1? Of course Oleg himself started this with the Lerche.

The other problem I have with putting totally paper planes into this sim is that there is no way a FM and DM can be realistically developed. Manufacturer's estimates are notoriously optimistic.

I actually LIKE fantasy planes, and wouldn't mind seeing them in an add-on to this sim. But in that case, I'd just as soon see modders design their own or work with other fictional designs like those in Crimson Skies (or Indiana Jones' Bv38) as put a lot of effort into "real" designs which would never have been produced in real life.

[European Snake]

I love "paper planes" but, I'm with him on this 1. The time used to make the G10N1 would much better be spent on a JU-86, proper bomber versions of the JU-52, or new JU-88s. But thats my opinion.

[Ectoflyer]

Actual airplanes are also "in production", think to the Lancaster, the Whirlwind, the Dornier DO-17, the SM_79 etc.
But not only a lot of work is needed to achieve them, you also must find the time for this work from the
real life (job, family, etc) and this is probably the hardest task...
But I'm confident that these new planes will arrive, one day...

[EasyRider]

Instead of trying to tell others what "they" should be doing when "they" build mods....
you should maybe take the time and energy to learn to build what ever it is you want...

If someone try's to build something,it is usually because "they" want to build it,not because you want it

To all those that complain about the non war planes and the hypothetical '46 planes being built and constantly whine that there are so many WW2 planes that need to be built and should be built first...and that resources and time and energy should go towards ww2 ete ete

You should get reading,and spending money on programs to use and... oh yes put in the countless hours upon hours of trial and tribulation while learning to build
"what you want"

As for the G10N1,if it is built... I will download and fly it 8)
I will say thank you to who ever built it... and I will appreciate it!

[Hannable69]

Personally, I have no problems with fantasy "paper planes" making their way into the game. I would prefer to see more actual WWII planes, but I will never snub my nose at any new aircraft someone releases, and I will use every single one of them, "paper plane" or not. I would rather see the Helldiver or the Marauder than Korean War aircraft to be sure, but I still use the Korean era jets and enjoy having them.

As to EasyRider's post, I agree with him in principle, but the delivery left something to be desired. Granted, I lurk more than I post, but I was always under the impression that a forum such as this one was a way for players and modders alike to communicate their wants for the game. I think a person should have every right to express how they would rather have X than Y in the game without being accused of whining and fickle complaining (as long as their posts are respectful). Not everyone has the talent, much less the money and time, to do serious modding work (I tried it for the game Fleet Command and just couldn't pull it off), but that doesn't mean that those of us who can't mod should be denied a voice in what we'd like to see.

[Bee]

Don't worry too much about the wet dream-waffe types. Almost none of them will actually get to completion. They will just remain a bunch of lengthy WiP threads, with pages of kids asking for updates and kneejerk accolades from the Hooray for Everything crowd.

[ArcticViper]

it is entirely up to the individual modder to decide what he/she works on.

Nobody gets paid for their work on this site, and it's purely out of their own interest they're making the 3d models, the effects mods, etc.
The thing is actually getting the planes into the game, there are few modders with the knowledge to take the mods the whole way from concept to flyable plane in IL-2, so it's usually a team effort to some extent.

The problem the "fantasy" planes have, is the they rarely get support from all the modders required, and therefore usually end up collecting virtual dust on a virtual shelf somewhere in a forgotten corner of somebody's harddrive...

Granted, there are lots of planes that need to be done, but it's again all up to the modders to choose what they want, but the more needed the plane is, the more likely it is to actually get the support from others to actually spend the time, their own time, to incorporate it into the game.

cheers
Arctic

[EasyRider]

I was always under the impression that a forum such as this one was a way for players and modders alike to communicate their wants for the game. I think a person should have every right to express how they would rather have X than Y in the game without being accused of whining and fickle complaining (as long as their posts are respectful). Not everyone has the talent, much less the money and time, to do serious modding work (I tried it for the game Fleet Command and just couldn't pull it off), but that doesn't mean that those of us who can't mod should be denied a voice in what we'd like to see.

Myself,I was under the impression this was a modding site where modders come together to build and to share idea's to build ,
I never once have thought these forums were for players to communicate "there wants"

What anyone want's to do with there time and energy is totally up too them to do with as they see fit
who am I to express what I think they should be doing with there time and energy!

[F4U-1_Corsair]

I personally Agree with you, I would rather see petes, G8M, ki-51, ki-48, J2F, B-18, and so on, but as much as I would like to see these planes in the game, I don't beleive it is right to tell modders what they can or cannot make. If someone wants to make a "paper airplane" then I don't think we should tell them not to. It is their time, effort, and determination which they are using, and they should be able to use it as they please.

[Divine-wind]

Meh, they build what they want, and when it arrives I download it because Wunder-waffe planes are fun to fly. Personally, though, I wouldn't mind if they built some early-war 'Paper' planes. Oh, the things I could do...

[Hannable69]

Myself,I was under the impression this was a modding site where modders come together to build and to share idea's to build ,
I never once have thought these forums were for players to communicate "there wants"

Well maybe that's part of the problem. Your "impression" smacks of elitism, and whenever a community divides itself into aristocracy (modders) and peasants (non-modders), that community invariably collapses sooner or later. This happens on websites, it happens to guilds on MMOs, and it happens to national governments. If this forum is just about the modders, then why even allow anyone but modders to post? This site could simply be a list of download links and a locked discussion board that only modders have access to. But it's not. Every online community that becomes exclusive ultimately fails. Anyone who has been around the block a few times on the internet can tell you that.

I don't beleive it is right to tell modders what they can or cannot make.

And no one is *telling* modders what they can or cannot make. All I see are players expressing an opinion of what they would like and not like to see more of in the future. The modders are free to ignore or not those opinions.

[Slow]

MODERATION: MOVED DUE TO POSTING IN WRONG SECTION

[VikShloss]

all i see is whining on both sides
how about somethng posotive?


ill try any new ac out fantasy or not just for the thrills

[jzoopster49]

To clarify, I do not mean to criticize those who have the skill and knowledge to make mods. I don't, and am unlikely to ever have the time or patience to learn. I too will probably download and fly the G10N when and if it is available, but I will always wonder why that effort was not put into the G5N or G8N, Japanese heavy bomber prototypes which actually flew, or the B-36. I appreciate Hannable69's defense. I suspect the people who use AAA and frequent this board are not modders, but just e-pilots who want to enjoy an improved version of Il2. I appreciate everyone who does this.

[Lefty Hartnett]

Good discussion.

I only want to add that even the Lerche is not a "paper" or "fantasy" plane (unless I am wrong about these terms carrying some kind of pejorative tone).

1) Aeronautical Engineers worked on and designed these aircraft, not school kids doodling "cool" looking planes on their note books.

2) Many of these designs--and I mean many--went on to be further developed in the postwar years by the United States and the USSR.

3) This experimentation was greatly accelerated because of the war and so I would argue that these planes are part of that history.

4) These kinds of planes were so important during WWII and also during the Cold War that many, many pilots were killed testing them. So, they were not simply failed marginalized ideas--even if they were never deployed.

5) Experimental aircraft highlights the problems that aeronautical engineers were trying to solve--even if they were "failures."

I find this aircraft extremely interesting even though I recognize the problem in simulating FMs.

So, while I see jzoopster49's point and I appreciate it, I have to say that there already dozens and dozens of historical planes in the game--and most of the important ones.