[European Snake]

@ European Snake: you must have missed it, further up that very page, Freddy wrote :

"The update will come at the end of the week"

In the confusion of the new several page argument, I didn't see it. Lol

[aymi]

@ aces O fAces
Yes we are 15

15 boys in a realist game , but.... ~~ 40.000 boys in a arcade game.

15 is a good start 8)
__________________
les autres vous moquez pas moi et l'anglaisca fait 2 :lol:

Surely a good start to insult 40000 guys in same time....

The update will come at the end of the week , no chance for Ass Of Asses , all the tests to be redone , and specialy the ROC !!!!

This one is not bad too...

*
_____________________________________________________________________________





j'insulte pas les 40.000 gars que je sache :???:

je sous entends que nous sommes 15 a avoir en test les am

[8FS_Bulau]

Have they run into a snag?

[RogueSnake]

Love this mod! I must also say the skins that come with it are amazing as well.

In the short time I've had to play with these aircraft I have noticed one thing. Being a USAF guy I feel like a traitor to mention it... But the Mig seems a little thin skinned. Too easy to kill.
This opinion is only based on some TV show I watched where USAF pilots stated that the mig could be hard to take down. LOL I know, thats hard facts there..

So this is more a question than a critique.

[calhanboy]

Only HE ammo in belting for the M3 0.50... probably the reason.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

"Two guys flying around on line is not how you test the performance of a plane"


... ACE-OF-ACES, you might be smart at curves but certainly not at counting 335th squad members at Histomod !!

They are 15, that's more than a 700% error percentage !! :roll:

@ aces O fAces
Yes we are 15

15 boys in a realist game , but.... ~~ 40.000 boys in a arcade game.

15 is a good start 8)

Get laid ace of aces, seriously, go out a bit and find a kind woman...
To join what FZ said, it's true, we're not less than two testing every update Freddy sorts out.

Follow my advice pal, get OUT (in the two senses know what I mean? :lol

P.S.: Have your wrong curves burnt your eyes and made you hideous?? Oh and please don't quote me, I get ill-at-ease rapidly :oops: but maybe I'm asking the moon? :? :?

WOW! And they say I am picky about numbers!

Now allow me to clear this up for you.

My statment about two guys had nothing to do with the total number of people in your squad

And everything to do with the relitive performace between 'two' planes flown by 'two' pilots

Better?

PS sorry my reply took so long, we had the biggest snow storm we have had in 50 years heard followed by the biggest winds in over 50 years (100mile/hr winds) that took out alot of trees which in turn took out alot of power lines. We were without phone service for 2 days and without power for 5 days. So I have been pretty busy around here patching things up and digging out of the snow.

But I am back now!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

For this reason , from this moment , I shall never answer you ...

Yet you continue to reply..

Which means I must be onto something and/or too close to the truth in what I say.

you claimed your F86 was more realistic than the "others" (read PeterDs).

No chance , my FM was made before Peter d"s update of the F-86 ... And it seems the fm coming with his 3D model update is not from him but from LT Wolf ? Yes ..No ? ...

Ah I see your mistake here..

Allow me..

My statement says nothing about which FM came out first..

My statement is about you implying your FM is more accurate than the others..

This is exactly my words to LT Wolf about that :

But you have done too a very good job , I don t want to say the mine is better , the best in my opinion is to let the choice to the players ...

Nowhere I ve said my fm was better than the "others" .... It s not FINISHED !!!!

That is what you said AFTER you said these two things..

My fm are the result after several months of fights online , they are not perfect but more Well-balanced ...

And

The problem is a lot of players prefer a FM cause they want to follow a particular modder , but they don t look at the real spec of the aircraft to see if his fM is more realistic than another or not ..

Now at the time of that statement by you there was only two MiG15s and two F86s out to choose from.

So it is safe to assume you were refering to PeterDs/Wolfs MiG15s and F86s

From the begining the same thing : NOT FINISHED !!! WORK IN PROGRESS !!!!!

You forget that you originally said this

Use your brains, test in game, and only consider what you think is the most credible

[quote="Freddy"][b][i]You too can access films, documents, books, and can decide for yourself what is credible and what is not

[ACE-OF-ACES]

P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole , I understand , but who is arguing in this thread from the beginning ?

Ah I think I found your problem/mistake/error Freddy!

What ever translator your using is broken

In that 'arguing' with someone does NOT equate to 'disagreeing' with someone!

If he prefers the fm from LT Wolf , no problem for me , he just have to get it , and go away from this thread !

Or if he wants to work with LT Wolf , he have to keep his curves for him .... But if he just want to prove my FM are wrong, and its the case here

Just prove 'your' FM is wrong?

Hardly..

Here is a link to a thread started by PeterD where he asked folks to post 'issues'

To which I posted the results of a test I did of PeterD/Wolf's MiG15 ROC

MiG-15 and F-85 Sabre Issues (post them here)

And that test showed the MiG15's ROC was wrong too!

Just like my testing of your F86 showed it's ROC was wrong too!

So your wrong in thinking I am only here to prove you FM is wrong!

On a related note..

The only difference here is in how the makers of the FM responded to their FMs being tested.

PeterD/Wolf thanked me for the feedback I provided and said they would look into it.

Freddy thanked me for the feedback by calling me names.

The real kicker here is PeterD/Wolf never claimed their FMs were better than anyone else, nor did they ask anyone to test the FM. Yet when someone did test it and found a bug they took it in stride. Where as on the other hand, Freddy implied his FM was better (more balanced) and ask people to test his FM for themselves to decide which one they liked better.

Ironic ain't it?

Now as for who did what from the begging..

Lets do a quick re-cap, of who said what when, ie the order/sequence it was said


page 06 My 1st in response to Freddys 'balance' statement

Balance is relative..

That is to say one mans balance is another mans un-balanced..

That is to say FMs should NOT be based on personal biases

FMs should be based on real world data!

In that online dogfights between two pilots says more about the differences in the pilots skills & luck than how realistic the planes are simulated/performing.

page 07 My 2nd post in response to Freddys 'let the players choose' statement

Agreed!

And with that said, you shouldn't mind me doing a full up test of how your F86/MiG compares to a real F86/MiG. The plan is to show the % error between the ingame data and the real world data. This will be two fold, one, generate the IL2Compare files, two, actual ingame flight testing using a 3rd party autopilot. Reason being, IL2Compare files are not allways 100% accurate. Hence the two methods. Each of which will provide a graph of the rate of climb and top speed per altitude along with a % error graph.

Than based on those results the players can choose which version they want to use.

With that said..

Assuming I am starting with a clean version of 4.08m or 4.09m. Can you provide me a link to all the mods I will need to install your mod.

page 07 My 3nd post in response to FC saying Freddy made 'improvements'

Well that is good news if that means he tweaked the FMs to better match/conform to the real world data performance..

And

But bad news if it means he flew a few more one on one df missions with his buds and determined they, in their MiGs, are still shooting him down too often in his F86 and thus he increased the power of the F86 some more..

Which is the problem with any/all FMs that are based on personal preferences instead of real world data.

page 08 Freddy's 1st reply to me wrt my 'increase power statement

Don t worry , no increased power for the F-86 ...
You are a flight Engineer perhaps ??? lol

page 08 My reply to Freddy's 1st reply to me wrt my 'increase power statement

Perhaps

With that said, how do you validate your FM changes?

page 08 Freddy's 2st reply to me wrt me asking how he validates his FM

All is said !
You seem to be a pretty boy, but you come here to fight with me about FM , and you have not tried the mod ???? hock:

Sorry , find another guy , I don t have time to loose ....
And before to talk about something , try it !
It seems too you don t know the game and its defaults ... :wink:

Have a good night ...

So, as you all can see..

Freddy set the tone here..

And he did it in his 2nd post to me..

So when Freddy says..

There is a limit to my patience ...

It is a joke..

In that you have to have some of something to have a limit of it

Just wanted to set the record straight as to who started arguing with who!

Freddy went on to call me many names after this..

And continues to do so!

Yet I am the bad guy here?

Please!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Aces: please cease posting your fm critiques in this thread. We've heard your case, but the input is no longer appreciated by the modding team. As You're not involved with making this mod, please gracefully bow out.

Roger-Wilco

No more graphs posted in this thread

Ill start my own AAA thread and post all the bugs of the COREE mod there..

And I should have the my website up soon..

Where I will post the graphs that show just how buggie all the COREE mod FMs are..

After I do that I can simply post the link in this thread and others in response to baseless claims of 'more accurate' and 'more realistic' and 'more balanced' so the members of this forum can see that those claims are just that..

baseless

[GaryR]

And I should have the my website up soon..

Can't wait.. :roll:

[FZ]

No more graphs posted in this thread

Ill start my own AAA thread and post all the bugs of the COREE mod there..

And I should have the my website up soon..

Where I will post the graphs that show just how buggie all the COREE mod FMs are..[/b]

.... WICKED !! ... and make your own FMs too ??

[ACE-OF-ACES]

.... WICKED !! ... and make your own FMs too ??

Well..

One thing is for sure..

If I did, I could do no worse than the 35% error found in the COREE F86 FM!

And I am just one guy..

Where as 15 or so missed that bug in thier 'team testing' procedures!

Maybe 'well balanced' translates differently over 'there'?

ROTFL! :lol:

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Can't wait.. :roll:

Oh but you will have to! :lol:

[zaelu]

So much good effort wasted into such... void?

Ace... why not rebuild the darn FM how you like it and let people test it? maybe you are really right... but, I and many others I believe too, after seing this amount of verbose from you just... say yuck at any post of you... really... I can't stand reading more than two rows and I believe many others do the same... and it is only your loss and a loss for your point.

Maybe you could be right but, you put the problem in a way that nobody is willing to listen.

my 2 cents... last of them.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

So much good effort wasted into such... void?

Well not really..

Look at the bright side here..

It started off with Freddy saying there was no bug in the F86 ROC

After I posted my results Freddy said he would be making a change (read fix the bug) the F86 FM

So I wouldn't call that a wasted effort!

Granted he never thanked me for pointing it out to him, but at least he is making the change!

Ace... why not rebuild the darn FM how you like it and let people test it?

So what part of Freddy asking us to test his FMs are you still struggling with?

maybe you are really right...

No maybe about it..

INFOMOD along with IL2Compare shows it is wrong, and my 'real fly' testings shows it is wrong

but, I and many others I believe too, after seing this amount of verbose from you just... say yuck at any post of you... really... I can't stand reading more than two rows and I believe many others do the same... and it is only your loss and a loss for your point.

So what part of me not giving a rip about what you think of me are you still struggling with?

Maybe you could be right but, you put the problem in a way that nobody is willing to listen.

Not true..

Freddy listened

He is changing the F86 FM correct the ROC bug/error

my 2 cents...

The truest (read most accurate) thing you have said to date!

last of them.

Promise?