29.03.2009, 15:44
omg 
hock: did he swallow a bunch of breast implants?
regarding Ta-152C the (perhaps too) good outright speed capabilities of it in-game are part of my point.
It is the overall flight management, handling and mid-range performance of it I think can be brought into serious question.
This is the same story with all the late war Luftwaffe piston planes like the Me-109K and G-10 and the Fw-190D, as well as the Ta-152H and Ta-152C.
Compare the Fw-190D-11 AAA mod with the in-game D-9.
Then compare the Me-109G-14/AS AAA mod with the in-game K-4 or G-10.
These mods are said to be based strictly on the latest available historical documentation which was very hard to find if at all only a few years ago. There is no doubt Olegs team did not have access to some of it.
So have a look at how they fly in-game. The G-14/AS and D-11/13 are actually competitive with the best Allied fighters and don't have all the instant overheating issues and horrid climb rates of the original Oleg variants of the same basic models.
Fly the K-4 for example, it is unstable in level cruise and is already overheating. Try the G-14/AS and it's like swapping it for a dream. Same with the D-9.
The Ta-152C is modelled just as poorly. It's almost overheating just after take off, is completely unstable in level flight at all speeds, has terrible acceleration, poor cruise performance and no climb rate, and it cannot sustain maximum performance in combat. I've just given a description of the very first Focke Wulf 190A prototype that was grounded by the RLM until improvements and modifications were made to rectify the situation.
It does not sound like a hybrid, new Ta-153 aerofoil combined with Tank's personal project of two years for a fighter aircraft that impressed the RLM so much they decided to cancel all other pending production orders in favour of.
What concerns me the most is the fact the K-4 and G-10 exhibit all these same in-game flying qualities, ie. not in the slightest competitive to a Mustang, Thunderbolt or a Tempest.
The best place to get a qualified opinion on the historical Ta-152C is the Luftwaffe Experten website. Go there, look it up and ask some questions of the experts. You'll come back with the same conclusions.
The late war Luftwaffe piston fighters in vanilla IL2 are ridiculously undermodelled to fluffed arcade performance favouring Allied war propaganda. It is easy to see how this happened, since much of the only information available about them until recently has done exactly the same thing. The only people that have thought differently about them in the past has been the vets who flew them or against them, and the initial speculators who flight tested them, and their impressions seem to match ours more than Oleg's (no offence to Oleg).
But you see now we have celebrated historical documentation on them easily available on the web or in specialist bookstores. And these match our impressions too.
Point in fact again, fly the AAA mods like the D-11/13 and G-14/AS and compare them to similar vanilla modelling for the glaring difference between dedicated 2008-9 research and that of earlier times, with too much consideration for arcade style "game balance" over historical reality in the first place. It seems Oleg in fact took his "inconsistent build quality" assertion entirely too far, all the vanilla late war Luftwaffe piston fighters are a piece of crap all the time.
It is plainly obvious they were implemented to be AI cannon fodder, with an added feature that a gamer could climb into the virtual cockpit of AI cannon fodder.
hock: did he swallow a bunch of breast implants?regarding Ta-152C the (perhaps too) good outright speed capabilities of it in-game are part of my point.
It is the overall flight management, handling and mid-range performance of it I think can be brought into serious question.
This is the same story with all the late war Luftwaffe piston planes like the Me-109K and G-10 and the Fw-190D, as well as the Ta-152H and Ta-152C.
Compare the Fw-190D-11 AAA mod with the in-game D-9.
Then compare the Me-109G-14/AS AAA mod with the in-game K-4 or G-10.
These mods are said to be based strictly on the latest available historical documentation which was very hard to find if at all only a few years ago. There is no doubt Olegs team did not have access to some of it.
So have a look at how they fly in-game. The G-14/AS and D-11/13 are actually competitive with the best Allied fighters and don't have all the instant overheating issues and horrid climb rates of the original Oleg variants of the same basic models.
Fly the K-4 for example, it is unstable in level cruise and is already overheating. Try the G-14/AS and it's like swapping it for a dream. Same with the D-9.
The Ta-152C is modelled just as poorly. It's almost overheating just after take off, is completely unstable in level flight at all speeds, has terrible acceleration, poor cruise performance and no climb rate, and it cannot sustain maximum performance in combat. I've just given a description of the very first Focke Wulf 190A prototype that was grounded by the RLM until improvements and modifications were made to rectify the situation.
It does not sound like a hybrid, new Ta-153 aerofoil combined with Tank's personal project of two years for a fighter aircraft that impressed the RLM so much they decided to cancel all other pending production orders in favour of.
What concerns me the most is the fact the K-4 and G-10 exhibit all these same in-game flying qualities, ie. not in the slightest competitive to a Mustang, Thunderbolt or a Tempest.
The best place to get a qualified opinion on the historical Ta-152C is the Luftwaffe Experten website. Go there, look it up and ask some questions of the experts. You'll come back with the same conclusions.
The late war Luftwaffe piston fighters in vanilla IL2 are ridiculously undermodelled to fluffed arcade performance favouring Allied war propaganda. It is easy to see how this happened, since much of the only information available about them until recently has done exactly the same thing. The only people that have thought differently about them in the past has been the vets who flew them or against them, and the initial speculators who flight tested them, and their impressions seem to match ours more than Oleg's (no offence to Oleg).
But you see now we have celebrated historical documentation on them easily available on the web or in specialist bookstores. And these match our impressions too.
Point in fact again, fly the AAA mods like the D-11/13 and G-14/AS and compare them to similar vanilla modelling for the glaring difference between dedicated 2008-9 research and that of earlier times, with too much consideration for arcade style "game balance" over historical reality in the first place. It seems Oleg in fact took his "inconsistent build quality" assertion entirely too far, all the vanilla late war Luftwaffe piston fighters are a piece of crap all the time.
It is plainly obvious they were implemented to be AI cannon fodder, with an added feature that a gamer could climb into the virtual cockpit of AI cannon fodder.