1946 with AI of 3.04

certificate Wrote:Just to be 100% sure, I did exactly that, then went in with a hex editor and corrupted all of the files. No change.

If there's any doubt in your mind, test it yourself: Make a backup of that folder and do whatever you want with those class files, corrupt them, make them blank etc.

Is there a change? Does the game still work? It does here.

Now do the same with the hashed files from my post and you'll get an instant crash, your game wont even start, because it's actually trying to read the corrupted files!!!

Which folder are you talking about? I have it in two places.
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Just had a thought- maybe getting the non-hashed version of this to work has something to do with whether or not you are using filelist.txt.

I do not have it any more. I know a lot of people do. I will try reconstructing my filelist.txt and try again.
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Avatar Wrote:
certificate Wrote:Just to be 100% sure, I did exactly that, then went in with a hex editor and corrupted all of the files. No change.

If there's any doubt in your mind, test it yourself: Make a backup of that folder and do whatever you want with those class files, corrupt them, make them blank etc.

Is there a change? Does the game still work? It does here.

Now do the same with the hashed files from my post and you'll get an instant crash, your game wont even start, because it's actually trying to read the corrupted files!!!

Which folder are you talking about? I have it in two places.

Try it in both...
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poncho Wrote:Just had a thought- maybe getting the non-hashed version of this to work has something to do with whether or not you are using filelist.txt.

I do not have it any more. I know a lot of people do. I will try reconstructing my filelist.txt and try again.

AFAIK, the filelist.txt and files directory just told the wrapper what encrypted hash files to substitute in, where the new wrapper uses the /MODS/whatever/ directory structure to do the same thing without having to make a list.

I don't understand how this could be working without hashed class files, AFAIK from 4.05 on they needed to be hashed. Anyway, I don't really care to argue about it as it's kind of a moot point. I know that in my install at least I need to hash them.

The main point of this is that the AI is moddable, and that's great news!
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Hmm, provided we put it there it was supposed to be. I hope we can get this out of beta.
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Is there a particular skill level these guys start performing their stupid rolling move at? It would be helpful in finding it.
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I can concur that the AI are acting a lot different. Nice touch..
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reflected Wrote:More testing: AI is way too agressive sometimes. When he's on defensive, it's really good. But with his AI I find myself alone with 4 AIs targeting me all the time. and I mean "me or them", so they won't stop until I die or I shoot them down. OK, in real life there were such situations, but it makes the game arcadish...Can we mix the offensive of the 4.09AI with the defensive of the 3.04?

+1 yes this woud be the best finding + deleting -A.I. 4.01 beta- firing behind you EVERY TIME you have an enemy plane in your reticle...
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certificate Wrote:
poncho Wrote:Just had a thought- maybe getting the non-hashed version of this to work has something to do with whether or not you are using filelist.txt.
....
The main point of this is that the AI is moddable, and that's great news!

Agree, now we can possibly fix and improve the ai to our needs ;-) Has anyone taken a good look at the AI source code? Is there any source code we can change?

Mark
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Yes, the maneuvers class has some 65 odd different maneuvers to perform, and they appear to be called on by the pilot class depending on skill, position and energy states. I was messing around with it trying to figure out what "maneuver" that slow roll down is. The tough part about adjusting the ai is that it's very difficult to test. I'd be more than happy to try to impliment some changes if you guys have some suggestions as to how to improve the ai and were willing to test it.
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I did as Avatar did and I see the difference. I was chasing a bf110 with a P-47 in a campaign and the bf-110 started to go inverted to perform another rolling away type maneuver, but as he went inverted he then broke left and up completely changing the way the normal 4.08 AI would go. I definitely see a good difference in the way the AI perform.
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certificate Wrote:Yes, the maneuvers class has some 65 odd different maneuvers to perform, and they appear to be called on by the pilot class depending on skill, position and energy states. I was messing around with it trying to figure out what "maneuver" that slow roll down is. The tough part about adjusting the ai is that it's very difficult to test. I'd be more than happy to try to impliment some changes if you guys have some suggestions as to how to improve the ai and were willing to test it.

Sounds pretty good to me, but it will be one hell of a job to get it done I guess ;-)

65 maneuvers and the way it's set up sound already pretty impressive to me. I guess Maddox already did a very good job...

Well, a lot of things could be improved of course, but I do not know if all are caused by AI (when to egress, cruising speeds, formations, go home if damaged or low fuel state etc, etc: are they also all in there?) and if they are easy to fix.

Well, anyway, just flew a short mission and I have already seen this bad AI behavior many, many times:

plane1: high energy state (e.g high altitude or simply faster plane like me-262)
plane2: lower energy state (e.g. lower altitude or old fashioned T&B plane or slower bomber)

A lot of times when plane1 tries to attack by swooping down on (still unsuspecting) plane2 it miscalculates, descends too fast and compensates by performing lots of yo-yo's and scissors to get into a good firing position. This pretty much ruins the B&Z attack and leaves the attacker very vulnerable because it too now has little energy left after this kind of attack. If situation permits of course, it should attack by making a single pass and zoom right up (or even further down and up). If a high speed (or high energy) plane engages a low speed, low energy plane the AI usually makes a wrong decision.

- Another bad AI example is the fact that enemies (e.g. 2 vs 2) nearly always try to shoot the leader of a flight and totally disregard the wingman whereas they're in a much better position to shoot the wingman. They fly next to each other and both wingmen simply provide cover.

- There are many situations where 4 or more planes chase one single plane while other enemies are close.

- Attacking bombers slowly on their 6-o-clock is usually not the best way to attack. Although not all fighters do this. Some try to get above and dive down, attack and dive away (maybe some special AI for certain fighters is already in there?)

There are of course many more, but surely others can give you many more examples.

I know its very hard but the AI should, apart from skill, position and energy states, also try to assess and prioritize the situation (fighter vs fighter, fighter vs bombers, escorts, no escorts, advantage or disadvantage wrt. number of planes, altitude, modern plane vs old plane, flak or no flak etc, etc), but that's asking too much I'm afraid ;-)

A high speed plane or typical B&Z plane should of course never enter a slow speed turning fight with a typical T&B plane; that's one of the things to fix in the current AI.

Mark
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Good observations Certificate, Xoddam,

This is all just speculation but-
It would seem to me that the best course of action would be to use the 3.04 ai as a learning tool, but have the ultimate goal of editing the 4.x ai to correct some of these behaviors. I'm pretty sure that the catalog of maneuvers is greater in 4.x.

I'm guessing that airgroup.class would be the file to edit to tweak formations and rules of engagement while pilot.class would be the file to edit to define the variables that trigger a certain maneuver.
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poncho Wrote:Good observations Certificate, Xoddam,

This is all just speculation but-
It would seem to me that the best course of action would be to use the 3.04 ai as a learning tool, but have the ultimate goal of editing the 4.x ai to correct some of these behaviors. I'm pretty sure that the catalog of maneuvers is greater in 4.x.

I'm guessing that airgroup.class would be the file to edit to tweak formations and rules of engagement while pilot.class would be the file to edit to define the variables that trigger a certain maneuver.

Definitely poncho, in specific 4.x adds these:

public static final int RUN_AWAY = 67;
public static final int FAR_COVER = 68;
public static final int TAKEOFF_VTOL_A = 69;
public static final int LANDING_VTOL_A = 70;

Which means that if we want it to be lerche compatible, we're stuck with using it Smile
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certificate,

Is there a table in current AI that defines if a plane belongs to a certain category or fall into multiple categories? For example, Pe2 and Stuka are dive bombers and are allowed or prefer to execute that kind of maneuver, whereas others do not.

If such a table exists, maybe it's possible to add new high level categories (e.g. B&Z planes) and add or modify some existing maneuvers (i.e. tactics) for those types of planes.

Mark
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