[Salty54]

I was so excited to get the F86 mod. It truely looks great and so many interesting schemes to paint. I've always been interested in the Korean conflict with Sabres and Migs mixing it up. So remembering that the F86 is using the P80 FM I went into combat with Mig 9 and completely and utterly got wacked. You can't go higher than 90% power without overheating. And it seems that the engine is constantly stalling and in the midst of combat, you're tryingt to restart the engine. Mean while that Mig is cruising rings around you, never losing energy and certainly their engines must be the most reliable ever since they can go and go. Now I remember why I never fly the P80 in this game. Okay, whine over, when is the new F86 FM coming? I certainly hope it makes that F86 scoot along.

[RAF_Magpie]

moved to correct location.

[JG14_Jagr]

FM building is a very very time consuming endevour. The FM of the higher speed jets is definitely pushing the limits of the IL2 engine so a great deal of trial and error (lots of error) will be needed.. Tyically for every thing you fix when making a change you break at least 2 other things you had within tolerances.. so its going to be a while.. I don't know if they will ever get a "Beta" FM out or not, I tend to doubt they will but you never know.

[US_GRANT]

FM building is a very very time consuming endevour. The FM of the higher speed jets is definitely pushing the limits of the IL2 engine so a great deal of trial and error (lots of error) will be needed.. Tyically for every thing you fix when making a change you break at least 2 other things you had within tolerances.. so its going to be a while.. I don't know if they will ever get a "Beta" FM out or not, I tend to doubt they will but you never know.

"Have a little faith Moriarity, have a little faith." (Donald Sutherland as Oddball, Kelly's Heroes)

[Maico]

I too felt the same way. I thought, Oh... yes, the YP-80 engine.... I kept stalling and killing the engine. I even got captured after not being able to restart. But HEY! Thats Ok, I will adapt and overcome.
I made myself feel better about the FM and you can too. Here is what you do:
Fly the Sabre for a while then switch over to the Mig-9FS.
Now remember, here is the fight sequence for the Mig....
1. Make pass
2. Stall engine(s) hock:
3. Look at Tachometer to figure out witch engine(s) is dead. :?
4. For one engine stall, Hit select engine (1 or 2) 8)
For two engine stall, Select engine 1/Start/Wait for start sequence/
Select engine two/Start/Wait for starter noise/ Select all engines
5. Listen for engine starter
6. Wait, 8) wait, :x check six 8) .....waiiiiiit :roll:
7. Hit Select both engines :wink:
8. Throttle and extend away from the fight
9. Reenter frey with no advantage
10. Gain a wonderfull apreciation for the amazing YP-80 :lol:

You could allways get the beautifull F-86 skin for the Ta-183. It also makes a better Mig

[F22-Raptor-2006]

I was so excited to get the F86 mod. It truely looks great and so many interesting schemes to paint. I've always been interested in the Korean conflict with Sabres and Migs mixing it up. So remembering that the F86 is using the P80 FM I went into combat with Mig 9 and completely and utterly got wacked. You can't go higher than 90% power without overheating. And it seems that the engine is constantly stalling and in the midst of combat, you're tryingt to restart the engine. Mean while that Mig is cruising rings around you, never losing energy and certainly their engines must be the most reliable ever since they can go and go. Now I remember why I never fly the P80 in this game. Okay, whine over, when is the new F86 FM coming? I certainly hope it makes that F86 scoot along.

Now if you fly that thing properly you will never flame out (in other words the engine stalls and you have to restart it). So far I have only flamed it out once during the weeks i've flown this since the first day it was released. So that shouldn't be a problem. The F-86 with a proper FM will also flame out so don't expect to get away with revving it up and down repeatedly once u get it... It won't be as easy but will still do it. You can fight at full power quite a while without overheating but you shouldn't need to fight at full power most of the time anyway. Also as Howlin says, you'll have to wait for the Mig-15 model to be done as well etc... 2 to 3 months time and u may have it.

[Strike]

I know quite a bit about gas turbine engines, and believe me that old P-80 engine did have no such thing as Mechanical Fuel Controls or Compressor stall protection devices like Variable stator vanes or bleed valves.

If the pilot was being impatient\cocky with the throttle you'd either spew too much fuel into the combustion chamber, causing a rapid expansion of gases and a higher pressure in the combustion chamber than the compressor discharge pressure. This could lead to reverse airflow in the compressor and a horrible stall with a resulting flame-out.

The other way around, if you ease down the throttle too quickly you can risk that the airflow is too high through the combustion chamber to maintain a continuous ignition of the reduced fuel vapor, so then you'll just end up with another flame out

I have never flamed out the p-80 unless forgetting about these simple rules.


Also in reality, a high angle of attack could cause turbulent airflow at the engine air intake\inlet which in turn could also stall the compressor

[IAF.ViFF]

...Mean while that Mig is cruising rings around you, never losing energy and certainly their engines must be the most reliable ever since they can go and go....

Sounds to me like a good comperative performance between Mig-15 and F-86 :wink:

If I remember correctly from the reports I read (I think it was from the manual that comes with Mig Alley Ace - they had official NATO pilot reports & debriefings in the box). The Mig-15 could do everything better at high alt, down low they were pretty much the same (turn rate and turn radius should be very similair down low) with the Mig having a small top speed advantage (which increases with alt) and climb rate advantage throughout the envelope.

The reports also mentioned of F-86 pilots in Korea seeing the Migs fly at 40k+ and not being able to get up there to contest them.

The great advantage of the F-86 was in the roll rate and the rate of acceleration into the roll with its hydraulic boosted ailerons (like in the P-38L), the Mig did not have hydraulic boosted ailerons and they would stiffen very hard at high speed.

The reports I read emphasized that F-86 pilots should try and trick the migs into scissors fights where high roll rate of the F-86 could cause the Mig to overshoot.

S!

[Maico]

So, how do you fly a jet right? I am curious to know since I have flown the YP-80 since its release. I have yet to be in a DF where the engine did not stall at least once.

[F22-Raptor-2006]

So, how do you fly a jet right? I am curious to know since I have flown the YP-80 since its release. I have yet to be in a DF where the engine did not stall at least once.

With jets yes the word "Speed" comes to mind but when your fighting you only use speed to get you to the location. The YP-80 is a good turnfighter jet wise. Normally I fly at 83% power most of the time, engine stays cool and you don't go too fast. If you find your going fast into a fight then get some speed off and slowly power down to 80 or so. On a long turnfight add the power up to 100 if neccessary. If you can keep at low speed then you have more throttle to play with. At high speed even minus 1% throttle and the engine can die. Generally i use 500kmh as the mark between do what you want slowly and be cautious. You'll find that you can outturn nearly anything even if you just fly at 85% to 95% power.

[Murph]

Did the engine in the P80 have problems with bursting into flames when throttling back to landing approach speed?
I know the Jumo engines had this, and it's modeled in the game, but I was surprised to have this happen with the P80.
I always thought it was caused by unreliable turbine blades failing, which should not have been a problem with the US made GE engines.

[Strike]

What can happen murph is that on throttling back too fast, your engine flames out, but you're still spewing a lot of fuel into the combustion chamber and essentially filling it with jetfuel. If your speed is low enough then perhaps some remaining heat and a lot of fuel vapor combined can cause it to re-ignite and thereby lighting the extra amounts of fuel inside the engine.

About the failing turbine blades, this can either be caused by blades failing under severe centrifugal forces and heat resulting in a material "creep" (elongation\deformation). Or simply bad fuel atomizing in the combustion chamber which result in burning fuel droplets escaping the combustion chamber and landing on the turbine blades causing them to melt. It does nasty things to turbine blades

[Maico]

This is good stuff strike! Keep it up. I dont know if you are right but you are centainly convincing :lol:

No seriously, thanks for the tips. I will try it out.

Also, while we are here. Is the Ta-52 the most Uber thing in the game or am I just lucky. That thing is crazy cool. However, I feel a bit like a newbie in a Spitfire.... What do you think of it?

[shakthamac]

...Mean while that Mig is cruising rings around you, never losing energy and certainly their engines must be the most reliable ever since they can go and go....

Sounds to me like a good comperative performance between Mig-15 and F-86 :wink:

If I remember correctly from the reports I read (I think it was from the manual that comes with Mig Alley Ace - they had official NATO pilot reports & debriefings in the box). The Mig-15 could do everything better at high alt, down low they were pretty much the same (turn rate and turn radius should be very similair down low) with the Mig having a small top speed advantage (which increases with alt) and climb rate advantage throughout the envelope.

The reports also mentioned of F-86 pilots in Korea seeing the Migs fly at 40k+ and not being able to get up there to contest them.

The great advantage of the F-86 was in the roll rate and the rate of acceleration into the roll with its hydraulic boosted ailerons (like in the P-38L), the Mig did not have hydraulic boosted ailerons and they would stiffen very hard at high speed.

The reports I read emphasized that F-86 pilots should try and trick the migs into scissors fights where high roll rate of the F-86 could cause the Mig to overshoot.

S!

this is pretty consistent with what I've read, except for one detail. IIR, the Sabre was faster in level flight than the Mig.

Also, the Migs superiority was only over the F-86A. The E model was supposedly better in most flight regimes, IIRC

[F22-Raptor-2006]

The E and F matched it more but were not superior. The pilots were though. The Mig had to play the vertical game ie bnz etc and the F-86 was the horizontal game so turn and burn. Down low the F-86 could fly faster and turn better than the Mig, Up high the Mig was better in all respects. It could also fly above the F-86 ceiling height and so escape.