[ACE-OF-ACES]

Ace, please drop it. Freddy is trying and doing a damn good job. Be thankful we have the basis right now, and worry about the details when it gets closer to total completion. Remember, yesterday was thanksgiving.

Thanks for you input Euro..

But don't be upset with me if I choose to totally ignore it! In that I think Freddie is comming around, and more than capable of speaking for hiself and does not need you to speak for him!

S!

Well, actually I'm not European. I've never left USA, but I have a lot of family in Italy.

I never said you were European, so not sure what your trying to say and or imply there?

What do you mean by coming around? And I'm not speaking for him. I just stated the obvious that he was trying and doing a good job.

Whatever, as long as you are not upset with me for totally ignoring you recommendation and assessment of the situation!

Than all is well!

S!

[Arsenal53]

eh, Ace of aces, with all the knowledge which you seem to have, I am really very, very impatient to see and try your mods :!:

then, instead of denigrating the work of others, rolls up your sleeves and put you to work.

[KG64_Ðørvånski]

I just found this pack last night hock:

Thank yoU!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

eh, Ace of aces, with all the knowledge which you seem to have, I am really very, very impatient to see and try your mods :!:

then, instead of denigrating the work of others, rolls up your sleeves and put you to work.

Denigrating the work of others?

No, you have it all wrong!

I am doing what Freddy ask me to do, i.e.

Here is the link where Freddy requested not only me, but all of us to do these types of tests PACK MOD COREA

Here are two key quotes from that link

Use your brains, test in game, and only consider what you think is the most credible

And

[quote="Freddy "]You too can access films, documents, books, and can decide for yourself what is credible and what is not

[FZ]

....What have you done lately that resulted in improvements to the game?

Arsenal has been "flying" (it's but a sim isn't it ?) on a 3 times a week basis for weeks with Freddy and squad mates to test and give his feedback in order to improve what is now part of the game , so that all the regular folks out there who FEEL LIKE downloading and installing and testing Freddy's Korea mod can do so AND ENJOY IT !!

It has ALWAYS been obvious that if ANYBODY doesn't like this Korea mod he can very simply DELETE the mod (that's why Freddy made it a "stand alone"mod) from his HD and FORGET ABOUT IT.

ACE-OF-ACES, I have done some quick research here and it looks like you have mainly posted about Peter D's F86 and Mig15 and Freddy's Korea mod, and I am very surprised that despite your very obvious skills at FM making neither PeterD nor Freddy, not to mention Uncle Oleg himself have ever thought of hiring your outstanding talent ....

If I were you (but I am glad I ain't) I would simply use my "DELETE" key and FORGET about it ALL .

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Ah so Arsenal is a bud of Freddy that uses Freddy's COREE mod

Well now that explains a lot about his post!

Thanks for the info/insight FZ!

PS as for who is hiring who.

It is clear from your statement that you don't have access to my PMs here or my e-mail at home? That or your crystal ball has a crack in it!

[FZ]

... you're welcome, that ain't no secret, the mere fact that Arsenal (and many others) is Freddy's squad mate, doesn' t mean that he will approve just about anything simply because Freddy made it ...

This Korea mod is the result of Freddy's work with the "little help of some friends" who "flew" and tested and gave Freddy their feedback, it goes without saying that they flew both the Sabre AND the Mig15.

The Korea mod is still WIP and will always be ....

EDIT: Of course I don't have access to your PMs here and your emails, and I will NEVER try to ...
I guess you neither have access to mine ...

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Never said or tried to imply it was a secret

I just didn't know he was, or should I say I didn't care?

As for what he approves or not, again, I don't care.

My only point is that it explains the tone of his reply, as in he is trying to defend his bud.

Very admirable IMHO!

But from what?

I just find it odd that Arsenal would be so ignorant of the fact that Freddy himself ask everyone to test his COREE mod, what with Arsenal being a close bud and all.

Don't you find that odd?

It is as if they only want positive feedback and praise

And anyone that points to an error is to be treated..

Well like I have been

Name calling and accusing me of attacking this or that

Just seems odd to me

[FZ]

.... at last you NOW seem to tone down a little bit ACE-OF-ACES and I am sincerely glad about it :wink:

You have to understand that Freddy worked very hard for months to release his KTO mod and he could simply have kept it for himself and a few selected squad mates ....

If only you could be more positive and constructive (I didn't say nor think admirative) ....

[ACE-OF-ACES]

.... at last you NOW seem to tone down a little bit ACE-OF-ACES and I am sincerely glad about it :wink:

You have to understand that Freddy worked very hard for months to release his KTO mod and he could simply have kept it for himself and a few selected squad mates ....

If only you could be more positive and constructive (I didn't say nor think admirative) ....

Well I only turned the tone up after I was called names and accused of attacking this or that..

I toned it back down after Freddy toned it back done..

So, don't thank me for my current tone, thank Freddy!

In that he set the tone up and down, I just react in kind to it.

As for constructive feedback.

Pointing out bugs is constructive feedback IMHO.

Like I said, Freddy asked us all to test his mod.

If he only wanted parise and thank yous from said testing he should have said that.

In that constructive feedback is a two sided coin.

Allways has been allways will be

[FZ]

... the thing is what you call a (FM) bug is not considered as such by the mod maker, simply because he states that the game code doesn't fit jets (IL2 was at the start only a tribute to that very plane) hence the atmosphere not beeing modelled as it should be, above say 5/6000 m, hence the stange attitude of jets past a certain speed etc ....

Let's be clear ACE-OF-ACES,I don't know anything about FMs, just trying to convey Freddy's belief after he put his nose deep inside the game code to understand how it works .. or doesn't work ...

So he had to make choices and find ways, not only included in the buttons file (but also java class files) to render as best as possible the attitude of jets in our beloved sim.

He regrets that his english doesn't allow him to explain all that, and I might some day help him do that, that is when he finds the time to do so, the lack of time beeing a major "bug" in his life even if he goes to bed around 3 a.m most of the time

[ACE-OF-ACES]

simply because he states that the game code doesn't fit jets (IL2 was at the start only a tribute to that very plane) hence the atmosphere not beeing modelled as it should be, above say 5/6000 m, hence the stange attitude of jets past a certain speed etc ....

Problem with that 'statment' is the 35% error in ROC is @ sea level not 6000m

Which debunks the theory/excuse that the game code is at fault

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Just completed the first formal ROC test..

To find the best ROC you have to first find the best climb speed(s) (BCS)

There are several options here, you can do the modern energy methods, but the quick and dirty way is to simply do several runs at several speeds..

Than compare the ROC charts of each and pick the BCS per altitudes, i.e. pick the speed that gives you the best ROC per altitude.

Here is a graph of my first run

It was preformed at ~300mph IAS



As you can see, climbing at 300mph IAS gives an ROC @ SL of ~8,500fpm, where as the real F-86A had an ROC @ SL of 7,500fpm..

Thus the in game F-86A has a full ~1,000fpm better than real ROC for a % error of ~13%

Which ain't bad!

But keep in mind this is just the 1st BCS I have tested, other speeds may cause bigger or smaller errors

Also keep in mind that while an ROC error affects the ROC at that alt..

The real impact, error wise, is in the time to climb (TTC) charts (alt vs. time) in that the ROC error is an accumulative error in the TTC chart. Which in essence allows the plane to reach an altitude much sooner than it could in RL.

Anyway, it is snowing here, I have to go shovel some snow, so I don't know how much more I will be able to do today. But if not this weekend than next for sure!

The plan is to do a few more BCS tests, than using the info from that testing to do an ROC with the BCS per alt applied to get the best in game ROC.

S!

[kapteeni]

LMAO
We are getting too serious. This A COMPUTER GAME after all.
OK! It is fun to read these, though!
Keep them coming.

PS! TEH P-47 WON TEH WAR!

[FZ]

... you are right Kapteeni, for those who want to learn about FMs there's this topic at SAS and especially for ACA-OF-ACES what Lutz (probably the one modder that has gone deepest into the game code, his job is to launch satellites ...) :

"One thing are parameters and the other thing is to see how they are processed by the soft. The fact that flight dynamics equations are "universal" is not an insurance that they are used and processed with the same (and logical) manner. As I have seen since a long time, IL2 code contains approximations (smaller or greater in certain cases) to perform the modelisation and to obtain a plane behaviour which stick in some points to the real one (when data are available).
Modelisation of atmosphere... is just a modelisation, modelisation of compressibility (specially M is greater than 0. is just a dream in IL2, modelisation of propellers is very strange, shape of polares, for all planes in IL2, are deducted from a single family (ie B17 and Me 109 ..) and so on...

That means, if you want to go in this way, you have to consider, not only the parameters but also the coding...

Infortunatly for you, in french, a link to our forum where some FAQ are discussed since a long time about IL2 flight dynamics. URL indicated in first or second post is out, but, end of november (I am not at this time in France), I will upload again a document where main parameters are explained."


the rest is here :

http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,1920.0.html

and Lutz's work (in French) here (ACE-OF-ACES I am pretty sure you're gonna like that 'cause it's stuffed with curves )

http://hist-simu.2jg51.org/Mods/manuel_mod_MDV_v2.pdf