[ACE-OF-ACES]

LMAO
Keep them coming.

Your wish is my command

[ACE-OF-ACES]

... you are right Kapteeni,

Disagree.. Well let me re-phrase that.. Most old school simmers would disagree.. As for the rest, there are two main category, One the types that just don't care they are flying a fantasy flight sim. You know the shoot-em-up Quake types that don't care if the P51 has the performance of a F15, to them all that maters is the eye candy and the points they can rack up before they hit refly. Two there are the types that don't really have much of a choice.. As in the types that look at these graphs and can not make heads or tails out of them. To them they are just lines on a page that say nothing. The analogy being someone who can not read looking at text on a page. But for old school flight simmers, like myself, realism maters. Where realistic performance is at the top of the list.

for those who want to learn about FMs there's this topic at SAS and especially for ACA-OF-ACES what Lutz (probably the one modder that has gone deepest into the game code, his job is to launch satellites ...) :

Nah, no need, in that at my last job my job was to design and build components on satellites! Even worked on a few tatical laser programs, which is how I found my current job. Currently I work at the biggest military test range in the lower 48. Where we have just about every type of weapon being tested here at one time or another. It is not a rare occasion to look up and see a F22 dancing around with another plane, heck a lot of what I do is just a mile or two from the trinity site and my office is in the same building where Von Bran use to sit and where they use to assemble V2s. That and when I pull into work it is not suprising if I have to park my dodge 2500 next to a T72 or BMP that we just installed remote control equipment. Good times! So yes, launching satellites is fun, but I prefer building stuff and than blowing it up!

"One thing are parameters and the other thing is to see how they are processed by the soft. The fact that flight dynamics equations are "universal" is not an insurance that they are used and processed with the same (and logical) manner. As I have seen since a long time, IL2 code contains approximations (smaller or greater in certain cases) to perform the modelisation and to obtain a plane behaviour which stick in some points to the real one (when data are available). Modelisation of atmosphere... is just a modelisation, modelisation of compressibility (specially M is greater than 0. is just a dream in IL2, modelisation of propellers is very strange, shape of polares, for all planes in IL2, are deducted from a single family (ie B17 and Me 109 ..) and so on...

Well any flight sim is an approximation, which is why they call it a simulation instead of reality. As I have stated several times now, no sim ever was, is or will be perfect, hence the name simulation, but IL2's game code is capable of better than 35% error! In short, the best simulation in the world still adheres to the old saying, ie garbage in garbage out.

That means, if you want to go in this way, you have to consider, not only the parameters but also the coding...

It's go that way or go fantasy, take your pick.

Infortunatly for you, in french, a link to our forum where some FAQ are discussed since a long time about IL2 flight dynamics. URL indicated in first or second post is out, but, end of november (I am not at this time in France), I will upload again a document where main parameters are explained."

the rest is here :

http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,1920.0.html

and Lutz's work (in French) here (ACE-OF-ACES I am pretty sure you're gonna like that 'cause it's stuffed with curves )

http://hist-simu.2jg51.org/Mods/manuel_mod_MDV_v2.pdf

Thanks!

But to be honest, I didn't see anything new there that haven't all ready seen.

But thanks!

[zaelu]

Can we see something else please? :?

I am sure is utterly important your point ACE but, please... make your own plane... please? We will fly it... don't you have any doubts about it.



FZ... any news from Freddy? Any chance of a integration in HSFX 4.1? I know there are problems... but... maybe compromises can be done?

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Can we see something else please? :?

Sure I can post the time to climb charts.. But you will have to wait until I finish up with determing the BCS. At that point Ill post those graphs and more along with the corsponding track files.

I am sure is utterly important your point ACE but, please... make your own plane... please? We will fly it... don't you have any doubts about it.

Whoops! I think you misunderstood, I didn't make this KOREAN mod, I am simply doing what Freddy ask of everyone to do, i.e.

Use your brains, test in game, and only consider what you think is the most credible

And

[quote="Freddy"]You too can access films, documents, books, and can decide for yourself what is credible and what is not

[FZ]

.....FZ... any news from Freddy? Any chance of a integration in HSFX 4.1? I know there are problems... but... maybe compromises can be done?

Zaelu, I'd be very surprised if Freddy accepted that, but I am not Freddy, I saw you visited Histomod yesterday, you should ask him either publically or by PM ....

[GaryR]

I'm new to the "Mods" part of 1946 but have been trying to get up to speed by reading everything here and on the Histo Forum before posting. As I had a "virgin" install of 4.09m there was no "Mods" folder so I started with installing the UM 1.8 package (also got the latest JSGME.exe update). That gave me the JSGME-MODS folder (populated) and a -MODS folder (empty). The GME loads the listed mods quite well and when loaded, the initial IL2 splash screen shows the "Mods Enable" logo. I DL'd the "Corea Mod" package and carefully followed the instruction here and (though different) the ones on the Histo site, including the newer 1.8 button and ini files. I have yet to see the Mod. I even tried dropping the Corea folders into the JSGME-MODS folder and loading them with GME. It loads them but still no jets. I feel like a total newb but what the heck am I missing? THe game loads fine regardless of how I move stuff around, though with patches the initial loadup takes a bit longer.. Thanks for any help, I want jets!

[P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole]

Aces, have you ever actually modded an fm, or made a new aircraft in your life? I ask this because actually, you're really starting to take the mickey. If you're not happy with the aircraft, don't use them. Otherwise, respect the right and privilige of the modder to make the aircraft the way he feels is correct. Freddy is not some lackey of your company whose job depends on his work satisfying you -- he's doing this as a hobby and has generously released this to the public -- whilst i'm sure you'll cite your rights to criticise, i put it to you this way, it's extremely rude.

You've made your point time and again, we understand your position -- you don't want to accept their beliefs, fine; it's a free country, but persistantly arguing the toss in the forums over what you want and what they're making is boorish and I'm getting rather fed up.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Aces, have you ever actually modded an fm, or made a new aircraft in your life?

As a mater of fact I have!

Just not in this sim.

But what does me making a mod or tweaking an FM have to do with me testing the accuracy of this FM?

I ask this because actually, you're really starting to take the mickey.

Take the mickey?

Sorry you lost me there

If you're not happy with the aircraft, don't use them.

That is true of every mod!

Otherwise, respect the right and privilige of the modder to make the aircraft the way he feels is correct. Freddy is not some lackey of your company whose job depends on his work satisfying you -- he's doing this as a hobby and has generously released this to the public -- whilst i'm sure you'll cite your rights to criticise, i put it to you this way, it's extremely rude.

Dood you could not be more wrong if you tried!

I am one of the few who has respected what Freddy ask us all to do!

Maybe you missed it, allow me to post what Freddy said..

Use your brains, test in game, and only consider what you think is the most credible

[quote="Freddy"]You too can access films, documents, books, and can decide for yourself what is credible and what is not

[P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole]

seemed more like you were purely arguing. If you have build and edited fm's, my apologies.
Taking the mickey = taking the p***, sorry for being unclear.

Also, please stop with the "you couldn't be more wrong if you tried" comments, and others in that vein -- again, it's really rather rude, and also quite arrogant to assume your opinion is automatically more valid. Irrespective of waht freddy said, you're still refusing to acknowledge that it's his mod, not yours -- all you're doing is repeating your opinion again and again, it is growing quite tiresome.

Right, i'm meant to be at a fencing match, so i'll keep this breif. If you're seeing closer to eye-to-eye with freddy, brilliant, congrats. Now stop clogging up his thread with your arguments with everyone else.

In effect, please cease patronising and arguing with people.

Oh also please stop breaking up what everyone says into a million quotes, you can answer people without doing that, it's getting mildly annoying.

Regards,
Mog

[ACE-OF-ACES]

seemed more like you were purely arguing.

Discussing and Debating can be confused with arguing at times

If you have build and edited fm's, my apologies.

No problem!

Taking the mickey = taking the p***, sorry for being unclear.

Taking the p***

Still not following you!

Also, please stop with the "you couldn't be more wrong if you tried" comments, and others in that vein -- again, it's really rather rude, and also quite arrogant to assume your opinion is automatically more valid.

Well when someone accuses me of something I like to set them straight, and I find saying they couldn't be more wrong about works. In that I never said Freddy is some lackey (your words not mine) nor did I say he has to make changes to satisfy me (your words not mine) thus your totally wrong! I have found that if you stick to things I actually say instead of things you 'think' I am saying we will get along much better! Just a thought!

Irrespective of waht freddy said, you're still refusing to acknowledge that it's his mod, not yours

Again, your totally wrong!

On this vary page in my reply to zaelu i said the following

Whoops! I think you misunderstood, I didn't make this KOREAN mod

I don't know how to make it any clearer than that! Again, stick to things I actually say instead of speed reading over a page and replying to things you 'think' I am saying and there will be less mistakes like that! That goes for everyone here! Me included!

-- all you're doing is repeating your opinion again and again, it is growing quite tiresome.

Again, totally wrong! I am doing offline formal tests, and updating the thread with those results.

Right, I'm meant to be at a fencing match, so I'll keep this breif. If you're seeing closer to eye-to-eye with freddy, brilliant, congrats. Now stop clogging up his thread with your arguments with everyone else.

Same goes for you!

Slow down, reply to what I say instead of what others are telling you I said or what you think I am saying based off a quick read.

In effect, please cease patronising and arguing with people.

Oh also please stop breaking up what everyone says into a million quotes, you can answer people without doing that, it's getting mildly annoying.

Annoying, but not against forum rules!

On that note, if you actually quoted me, and than replied to it, Instead of replying to something you think I said, I think you would find you make less mistakes like the ones you made here

Just a thought!

Good luck in your fencing match!

[P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole]

Thank you, I got slapped a lot, but won. :)

Some of the above points I'd conceed, others I'd argue further, and yes i'd break down the arguments to answer each point in turn. However. You'd then respond and i'd get no where.

But on a serious note, stop arguing in this thread. Really. Do i have to make repercussions to get this message to sink in? I stepped in and told you to stop your arguing with people and instead you started arguing with me. Don't any further.

[FZ]

Thank you, I got slapped a lot, but won.

Some of the above points I'd conceed, others I'd argue further, and yes i'd break down the arguments to answer each point in turn. However. You'd then respond and i'd get no where.

But on a serious note, stop arguing in this thread. Really. Do i have to make repercussions to get this message to sink in? I stepped in and told you to stop your arguing with people and instead you started arguing with me. Don't any further.

THX for taking over Moggy, I had just decided to stop wasting my time .....

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Thank you, I got slapped a lot, but won.

Some of the above points I'd conceed, others I'd argue further, and yes i'd break down the arguments to answer each point in turn. However. You'd then respond and i'd get no where.

But on a serious note, stop arguing in this thread. Really. Do i have to make repercussions to get this message to sink in? I stepped in and told you to stop your arguing with people and instead you started arguing with me. Don't any further.

Sure

If you can give me one example of something I said that you consider an argument..

An argument that you feel I started!

In that up to now me answering a question is not what I consider an argument.

Just because they don't like the answer does not mean I was arguing with them.

Take FZ last post to me..

In summary he said the errors between the game results and the real world data is due to the game not simulating things well above 6,000m

To that I pointed out the 35% error is happening at sea level not 6,000m

Is that what you consider an argument?

I would not consider that answer an argument.

FZ may not have liked it, because it took all the wind out of his sails and left him speechless, but arguing?

I don't see it.

I'm willing to change my ways here, but you have to give me some idea of what it is you feel is argumentive.

In that clearly we have two different definitions.

PS feel free to take this to the PM thread we have going! No need to cluter up this thred with this stuff!

[P/O W. 'Moggy' Cattermole]

for goodness sake, that reply alone was argumentative! All you are now doing is being pedantic and argumentative. STOP. I will ban you if you continue.

[European Snake]

Ace, you're borderline thread hijacking from what I can see.