[Aurora]

I always thought the Me-262 was one of the best but when 4 MiG's fight against 4 Me's then none of the Messerschmidt's are left.
Was this really like this?

[Guest]

I always thought the Me-262 was one of the best but when 4 MiG's fight against 4 Me's then none of the Messerschmidt's are left.
Was this really like this?

How are we supposed to know if it was like that or not? There was never Jet To Jet Combat in WW2 unless we don't know about it.

[RedChico]

No Mig 9 fought against Me 262's in WW2.
Despite that if you look at the wings of each airplane, they will give you a clue, diferent types of wings will behave diferently in a dogfight.

Check this wiki page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_configuration


EDIT: and look at the weights of both airplanes.

[vampire_pilot]

human players or AI? With AI I say you are dam* right.

human not so much.

why? The dam* game AI favours planes that dogfight and turn better. Just that simple.
Watch the AI. It will never use the boom-zoom qualities beside one pass and then tries to enter a turning contest in every plane and that is why usually the German planes suck so much against fx late russians because they where the better dogfighters.

in jets, for which the AI never was designed, it is the most obvious when a 262 tries to maneuver behind any given plane. no speed advantage anymore, just a sloppy brick in the air.
The MIG does the same but turns better in this contest despite being speedwise 2nd. so it almost allways wins.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

I always thought the Me-262 was one of the best but when 4 MiG's fight against 4 Me's then none of the Messerschmidt's are left.
Was this really like this?

The Me262 was one of the 'first'

But far from one of the 'best'

It was more of a buff hunter than a fighter

The P-80 would have flown circles around it had the war lasted much longer.. Just hard to say if they would have been able to find each other what with all the nuke dust over Berlin

[Thee_oddball]

pointless fight ,the mig9 and yak15 did not make there first flight until april 1946 and by that time the Ta183 would have been in production (as close it came to becoming a reality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FMA_IAe_33_Pulqui_II) the 262 is speed and guns not dog fighting

[ACE-OF-ACES]

by that time the Ta183 would have been in production

LOL!

Good one oddball!

[snowleopard]

Me-262 are more as bomber interceptor even MK-108 only good for bomber attacking as it was tight focus to stop mass bombing. Ta-183 is a bomber interceptor too however there are a new Ta-183 MOD as light with MG 151/20.


We have to remember some WWII plane was build as interceptor with zoom and boom attack like Me-109, P-40 and Ki-44 as Zero, Ki-43, Yak-3 and Hellcat built as dog fighter Then in 1960, F-4 II phantom was pure built as bomber interceptor without cannon sudden force to fight with dogfighter Mig-17

[RichardH]

Me-262 are more as bomber interceptor even MK-108 only good for bomber attacking as it was tight focus to stop mass bombing. Ta-183 is a bomber interceptor too however there are a new Ta-183 MOD as light with MG 151/20.


We have to remember some WWII plane was build as interceptor with zoom and boom attack like Me-109, P-40 and Ki-44 as Zero, Ki-43, Yak-3 and Hellcat built as dog fighter Then in 1960, F-4 II phantom was pure built as bomber interceptor without cannon sudden force to fight with dogfighter Mig-17

The Hellcat wasn't built as a dogfighter at all. It was designed to be the new Air Superiority fighter to the fleet (Alongside the F4U-1 Corsair) , it just happened to be a good dogfighter (obviously not in a slow speed fight against a zero) when flown right..

[Polkovnik Kirov]

On a side note, playing this game with the proposed dog fight, If I play as the Me-262 pilot, I always end up destroying one or both of my engines. Is there anyreason why the German engines like to catch fire when you add too much thrust, I mean, I understand Flameout, but Explode? that doesnt make sense?

[Aurora]

On a side note, playing this game with the proposed dog fight, If I play as the Me-262 pilot, I always end up destroying one or both of my engines. Is there anyreason why the German engines like to catch fire when you add too much thrust, I mean, I understand Flameout, but Explode? that doesnt make sense?

I'm not sure at all but it could be because of the fuel tanks. They are in the wings and so are the jets...
But that doesn't explain the He-162 :?:

[baronbutcher]

Agree with oddball - the Me262 wasn't a dogfighter - it was meant for bomber interceptions - Using its speed advantage to try and avoid the esorts and then use its firepower against the bomber streams. the 262 was a good jet let down by the short life and unreliable engines. It was a early jet with different role to the P-80. Had it better engines and more development the 262 could have been much more. Eric Brown RAF who tested many aircraft of WW2 liked the Me 262. The Luftwaffe had other stuff on the horizon which is more compairable a match with the P-80 but time, engine reliability, (the British had far better reliable engines), shortages etc. it was far too late - the war being lost along time ago. Some German designs did influence developments after the war. The P-80 later than Me 262 into service can be compared with early Russian jets. Earlier Russian jets weren't very successful at all compared with American and British jets which were more reliable and better overall but when the Russians came up with the Mig 15 the Americans really needed an answer. The Sabre proved with the right tactics it could match the Mig 15.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Agree with oddball - the Me262 wasn't a dogfighter - it was meant for bomber interceptions

Actully

Oddball never mentioned anything about it being a bomber interceptor

I was the first one in this thread to point that out

Not that it is a big secret or anything

Just that some want to belive it was something more than that

Thus it needs to be pointed out from time to time

more development the 262 could have been much more.

Which is true of most things not just the Me262

[Storebror]

If I play as the Me-262 pilot, I always end up destroying one or both of my engines. Is there anyreason why the German engines like to catch fire when you add too much thrust

Yes and it's got nothing to do with fuel tanks (sorry Aurora).
While the "initial" Jumo 004A engine used scarce raw materials such as nickel, cobalt and molybdenum in quantities which were unacceptable in production, the "final" Jumo 004B changed all the hot metal parts - including the combustion chamber - to mild steel protected by an aluminum coating, and the hollow turbine blades were produced from folded and welded Cromadur alloy (12% chromium, 18% manganese, and 70% iron) and cooled by compressed air "bled" from the 8th stage of the compressor (the nozzle housing was cooled by another bleeding tap from the 4th stage).

The Jumo 004's specs were altered accordingly, e.g. the operating speed was reduced from 9.000rpm to 8.700rpm, the thrust from 9.8kN to 8.7kN and the typical service life for a Jumo 004B lasted app. 10-25 hours only.

The exceptional shortcoming leaving you quit most of your fights with burning Jumos is its sluggish throttle response. It was fairly easy to inject too much fuel into the engine by throttling up too quickly, allowing heat to build up before the cooling air could remove it. This led to softening of the turbine blades, and was a major cause for engine failures.
Furthermore the Jumo 004B's standard fuel was J-2, a synthetic fuel produced from coal which was much more sensitive than today's kerosene (furthermore the 004B could operate the even more difficult standard aviation gasoline (not considered desirable due to its high rate of consumption) and Diesel oil (Standard fuel for the 004A, but uncommon for the 004B)).

To cut the long story short:
Always deal gently with your throttle and your engines should take you back home in one piece.
You must not shift the throttle lever quickly on a 262, even in emergency situations, except you're ready to open your canopy with the other hand already.

Best regards - Mike

[Thee_oddball]

by that time the Ta183 would have been in production

LOL!

Good one oddball!

16 prototypes were to be built, allowing the tail unit to be interchanged between the Design II and III variations. Of the Versuchs (experimental test series) aircraft, the Ta 183 V1-V3 were to be powered by the Jumo 004B turbojet, pending delivery of the HeS 011 jet engine. The Ta 183 V4-V14 were 0-series preproduction aircraft and V15-V16 were to be static test aircraft. The first flight of the aircraft was projected for May 1945, but none were completed by 8 April 1945, when British troops captured the Focke-Wulf facilities. However, construction of the first prototype did not commence before the end of the war in Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Ta_183
if the above information is correct it would be naive to think that if the race had continued that by the time the yak15 and mig 9 took there first flight that the 183 was also doing the same


To the original author .
A better match up in the game would be the HE162 (late model) vs Mig9/Yak15 ( i have a COOP based around the match up...fun )

S![/quote]