Hi all,
No fancy graphics on this stuff; it dates back to the early days of IL2Center. There might be the odd gem of info in there, or even the key to unlocking the mystery of the 3D converter - who knows
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BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING
Do not work on your own
Do not work on your own
Do not work on your own
Do not work on your own
It is VERY important that you make your intentions known before you begin a modeling project. If you don't, the highest risk you face is that somebody else will claim your project first and you'll end up wasting a lot of time on a model nobody uses.
Secondly, any experience you might have had with modeling will NOT prepare you for making a plane for IL-2. There are specific techniques, and there are some secrets you won't see in this FAQ or anywhere on the net. If you work on your own, you risk making a perfectly good MAX model which will be totally useless from the Il-2 point of view
Lastly, if you're new to modeling and you're shy or you're not sure of yourself - you run a much higher risk of not succeeding in your project if you try to figure everything out on your own. We're not here to control, demand or direct. We're here to help. I (Luthier) respond to dozens modeling questions a day via email, and I review at least a dozen models every week.
So, in conclusion, before you do anything else, either post in the forums or email Luthier and make your intentions known.
1. General Questions
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1.1
Q: So what's the poly limit nowadays?
A: The old poly limit used to be 2,500 polys. For FB and on, the poly limit increased. It is now 3,000 polys for a small plane (which includes all fighters and some smaller two-engined planes similar to FW-189 or P-3; 3,500 polys for medium sized-planes, and 4,000 for heavy bombers. In some unique cases when a smaller plane is of a very complex shape, and it's not likely it would be seen in large numbers (for example PBY Catalina) we may allow to go slightly over the posted poly limit. However, you must clear this with Luthier or Oleg BEFORE you go over the limit.
1.2
Q: Are you guys using any particular/custom modifiers for anything?
A: No. As a matter of fact, do NOT use any custom modifiers. EditMesh, UVWMap and UnwrapUVW. That's all.
1.3
Q: I'll need to make several less detailed models for different LOD as per specified polygon limit. Is the limit for the high-detail model alone, or for all of them combined since they're all stored in one file?
A: That's the limit for the high-detailed non-damaged model..
1.4
Q: What's the deal with the cockpit? Poly limit? Number of textures constrained to what size? Damage textures for cockpit?
A: The cockpit limit is somewhere at 2500 faces or so, based on the geometry. 20 - 40 textures (including damaged and night) is usual, but strictly limited to be no large than 256x256. Damaging is geometry - based, and may include texture replacing as well..
See the cockpit FAQ for more details.
1.5
Q: Total number of texture files?
A.
One 1024x1024x32 .tga. It should contain textures for everything, with the exception of glass for which a separate .tga will be provided to you.
Keep in mind that while the in-game standard texture will be 1024x1024, all custom skins will be 512x512. It's recommended that you do most of the mapping with the 512 skin to make sure you won't get overlapping artifacts with the smaller texture.
1.6
Q: I'm guessing in reality, based on the documents and your cockpit example.. the "true" faces limit of an aircraft is closer to 5000 -to- 6000?
A: The amount of faces in the model, and in the .max of course, is actually unlimited. The limit applies to the geometry visible in the current a/c state..
1.7
Q: How closely does the MAX render represent what will ultimately be seen "in game"? Would like to have some frame of reference, so hues.. etc. can be properly adjusted.
A: Well, that's hard to say. Only used that for mapping adjustments....
But it's somewhat close..
On the other hand, we can adjust materials in the engine to find the best match with the max picture....
2. External Modeling Techniques
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2.1
Q: "Detail-cockpit".. Again from dissecting the IL-2 example, I surmise that one culls away the a parts of the airframe that cannot be seen from the cockpit?
A: Sorry, couldn't catch up with the idea here....
Detailed cockpit is the cockpit itself, and normally doesn't include anything of the airplane. But a piece of cowling and antennae wires visible detailed, or something alike..
I trust we have time till you go down to the cockpit, so we'll work this out..
2.2
Q: In Myrsky II, it seems the cowl flaps don't operate as they do normally in other planes (swings up & open, flush against the cowling when closed). They seem to retract inside & under the cowling when in open position, and extend backwards to cover the gap between the cowling and firewall in closed position.
Does the IL-2 support this kind of cowl flap movement or is it restricted to the "normal" kind?
Ugh, it took me several hours to finally figure out how they operated. in several pics I thought they were removed altogether, but they were simply pulled inside the cowling. Curious idea, they won't hamper the visibility forwards when open.
A: Picture
Though no sliding joints is allowed, those can be easily emulated using distant pivot points. See the picture to get my idea on the flaps discussed.
No need to shift it kilometers away - some 10 m will do, and the rotation during the slide shall not be noticeable.
2.3
Q: I'm modeling small walls between the rudder and the wing (very small space between them). Should i model them or should I try to make the rudders go "into" the wing with a triangular construct thus when I move the rudders up and down you don't see "inside" the wing part of the model. Sorry if this question seemed hard to understand. Will show with a picture soon.
A: Actually, we model the "wall" on the rear edge of a wing or stab. Even a well for a flap, but not always - sometimes a flap is just a plane floating beneath the wing.
2.4
Q: How should we model the landing gear? I'm modeling it now in "out" position. Should we model it in inside position or is this part with "moving parts" etc done by Mad Dragon's gentlemen?
A: The gears must be in "in" position when importing into the game, so you can make them in position "out". Seriously, model 'em to your liking, you can turn them inside later..
2.5
Q: How do I approach making gear wells? Is it always a part of the wing? Should I cut the gear shutters out of the wing structure, making sure they completely fill it in gear up position?
In planes where gear is partially visible through the lower wing like Me109, are we always looking at the actual gear structure and inside the well, or is it just a normal surface with gear only existing in texture? How is that approached?
A: Cutting the gear door (with Boolean or something) is Ok. The gear itself, yes, is the one and the same object, turned into the position, then shutters closed. It is in the well so you can shoot it off..
2.6
Q: How advance should i model the landing gear area? There arent many screenshots showing the underside of the airplane models and most models done by outsiders like me have had landing gears that are in one position only. Should i model the "inside" of the landing gear "housing" or should this be textures?
A: The gear well should be cut out, or at least some hollow. Hate seeing a wheel disappearing tunneling through a mass of metal. It ain't no "Titan" project..
2.7
Q: When the gear is retracted does the IL-2 3d engine put these "unseen" polys away? When the H-75A-2 Hawk has its landing gear in "up" position it is still showing the gear itself thus adding more polys. Hmm. Hope anyone understand what I'm trying to ask here.
A: They're not put away. And that doesn't add polys, it just doesn't lower their count, sense the difference.
2.8
Q:So how many polys should I put in for the gear wheels?
A: There are standard gear wheels you must use. Contact Luthier for details.
2.9
Q: On this fuse example of the PZL P.11c, You'll see I have the townsen-ring as an "inside" and "outside".. I'm sure you can see, that this eats a lot of faces!
A: It unnecessary to have it two-sided in the example, unless you tend to model a visible engine inside. I've attached an example of what the "internal" part should look like - hope I'll get the idea.
2.10
Q: In the example of the townsen-ring, would it be possible to get away with using two-sided polys and only have one ring to save on the face count??
A: Actually, though two-sided triangles do save poly count, they don't save much of the CPU time, since the normals are doubled anyway. And vice versa - two separate faces give you more freedom in modelling - i.e. you can paint cockpit frame different colour from the camo in your PZL..
2.11
Q: Let's say we are breaking off a section of the wing.
So, can I make the cut slightly jagged and put internal wing structure like wing struts sticking out, etc, so that the count of damage polygons inside the wing is equal or less to the number of polygons being shot off?
I guess this comes down to this: if I have extra damage polygons hidden within the model, do they still count towards the final number?
A: Yes, and that's a welcome to make the internal structure. When a part is shot off it is replaced with a part capping the remaining hole, and you may make that part with all the funky struts, etc., etc. Hidden polys don't count..
2.12
Q: I had separated my model into sub-section, i.e. front and read fuselage, three wing section, etc. So, now all of the seams between sections are clearly visible.
What did I do to make it happen? If I look at the vertices that make the division, they exactly match. I'm confused...
A: That's what it is supposed to be, nothing you did wrong. Since the sections are different objects, their faces' normals are no longer smoothed between, no matter their vertexes coincide. (The only divided primitive that would look the same is a flat plane..)
Actually, this is nothing to worry about. If they looked smooth before separating (you "detached" faces, I hope), their smooth groups shall be bent together again once put into the engine. Corrections might be necessary if something goes wrong, but not to worry about today.
2.13
Q: The wings separate? Would this not double the red fuselage model?
A: Oh my!!!. That red thing!.
Not mentioned anywhere, but the red flat faces are "NULL" material (check material editor) and are NOT put into the engine when being converted!. That red thing is nothingness, serving only as a source of face normals..
(NULL material is a material with name "NULL", no more. Sorry if it sounded incomprehensible.)
That brings you to a more confused state, I presume...
So let me try to explain it, in a nutshell. When two nearest parts (say A and B) surfaces join at an angle, that would produce a visible seam between them, since they are different objects, and are not smoothed to each other. Attaching an invisible part B to part A, and invisible part A to part B would smooth the joint as if they were (and they are in that case) one object. Faces with NULL material than rejected and you have two separate objects smoothed to each other..
Yup, hate seeing edges where parts separate..
2.14
Q: Should I collapse everything to a mesh after texturing?
A: Nope. Leaving the stack allows you to back up to some extend....
2.15
Q: Will it be possible to import planes from the game into 3D Studio Max for analysis and/or modification?
A: All Development is done in 3DS MAX. If you need to see an in-game model, just ask and you can get your hands on the the actual .3ds file
Damage Modeling
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2.16
Q: How exactly are the damage pieces utilized in game? In dissecting the IL-2 example, I noted the wings had, the normal wing-section, in some a normal-reversed section, visiable sparing, and endcaps. In total face-count this well exceeds the 2500-face limit! Are these pieces hidden? what is their order of unhiding? are the end-caps separate from the wing-piece or a whole?
A: The innner structure is visible on the severely damaged levels (included in a *_d3_* objects or as separate *_d4_* ones - can't remember for the il-2 model). The caps are alike - they're unhidden only when are supposed to be. I.e. when the outer wing section
(WingLOut_D*) is shot off, it separates, and cap (WingLOut_CAP) is unhidden to cloth the hole visible in the inner wing section.
As for the poly count - it applies to the LOD 0 non-damaged model (no matter the total face count in the Max project could be billions).
Showing end-caps, however, wouldn't normally increase the poly count, as the parts separated are no longer rendered..
2.17
Q: Are the damage pieces counted in the total-face count of the model? I suspect not, but want to be absolutely sure.
A: Not counted..
2.18
Q: What is the main reason for separating the model into parts, i.e. inner, middle and outer wing, etc? Is that to break parts off as result of damage?
Do the inner sides of each section need to be textured with internal wing structure? Are they always cut parallel to the Y-axis?
I'm just trying to understand the logic behind the sections existence. Do any of the sections ever come to play separately, or is there some other reason?
A: This is for damage modeling.
Right, we can't cut plane at any point. Just which we select. In our models we try to keep such damage using real construction of the plane (and of course WWII photos). For these, for which we have not full damage/construction of airframe data - we go with approximation.
For Bi-1 is possible to go by another way as for IL-2 model itself.
The construction of the wing shows that bad for damage places (cuts) is near fuselage and in place of main gear location. Other part of the wing could be without damage model (just special textures for damages).
Naming Convention
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2.19
Q: Is there a particular naming convention? I presume the engine will try to interact with/break off a certain part of the plane by calling it by name. Do you have to set that all up when importing the .3ds file in engine, or do I have to do that? Basically, how does IL-2 know that this particular object is, say mid-section of a port wing or a starboard elevator?
A: By name. That would be convenient to have the names standardized in the .max already (I can't remember if they're stated in the doc), but they are renamed and grouped during the conversion into the engine.
Just no spaces, Ok?
2.20
Q: If possible.. Could one of you please give a step-by-step outline of (for a reference example lets use the right wing). The naming concessions the parts and their next target part.
(Example)
Base model = rootwing + midwing + wingtip
1st damage LODS = D1rootwing + D1midwing + D1wintip
I hope you understand what I am asking for.. If not I apologies, as I cannot conceive a better way of asking.
A: The name is made of part identifier, damage level number and the LOD number: __. The wing parts are named: WingRIn, WingRMid and WingROut, where "R" stands for "Right" and "In"/"Mid"/"Out" name the opsition. This naming makes them sort correctly when showed in a alphabetically - sorted list..
Thus, the names would be:
No Damage:
WingRIn_D0_00, WingRMid_D0_00, WingROut_D0_00 (or *_01 for LOD 1, *_02 for LOD 2, e.t.c.)..
Damage 1:
WingRIn_D1_00, WingRMid_D1_00, WingROut_D1_00..
Damage 2:
WingRIn_D2_00, WingRMid_D2_00, WingROut_D2_00..
Damage 3:
WingRIn_D3_00, WingRMid_D3_00, WingROut_D3_00..
and the caps:
WingRIn_CAP_00, WingRMid_CAP_00, WingROut_CAP_00..
A "cap" part replaces the part that goes off. I.e. when you got your outer wing section shot, it changes from *_D0_* to *_D1_*, and so on, and when it is blown off, it changes from *_D?_* to *_CAP_*. In a way of hiding/showing..
3. Texturing and Skins
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3.1
Q: Will regular users be able to modify or create their own skins or plane models? Will skins have to go through your certification process, as models do?
A: User-made camo skins: We don't need to certificate them. It is easy and up to user. The all can do themselves... Similar with any markings, which is separate skins.
New 3D objects (planes, tanks, ships...) - Yes we'll certificate them and will program FM, weapon, DM, etc. ourselves.
Our 3D models of the planes are most complicated of all existing or coming soon sims. To make them you should have so great experience of special professional tools, that it is impossible to make so many.. Our cockpits - it is even better... It is better than in WWIIF or B17II.
Q.
By looking at IL-2 mesh I presume fuselage texture is using cylindrical wrap. Does it matter if texture seam is on the bottom or top the fuselage?
A: Not really, actually flat mapping seem to be more convenient, at least to me.
Q.
This is how I intend to map two textures to one object, that is top and bottom of a wing: select polygons for top or bottom, add UVW map, shrink wrap and do planar (or cylindrical) and then UVW-unwrap. Is this right?
A: That is a way, but why shrink-wrap?
The more advanced method seems to me today is to select faces and put a UVW planar map on them, then adjusting it to fit the mesh as necessary. It allows you to move the map atop of the stack later, to re-map the mesh you have changed, or cut-n-paste it to another part, i.e. to make keel-mapping match the one on the fuselage side. Just a piece of advise.
Q.
I noticed in the ACModels file, it says that "u/c wheels, propeller, pilots and glass parts " need to be on a separate texture. What is the ideal size limit for this texture? Also, do we need to include a 'spinning' propeller as well on this texture, or just a spinning hub?
A: We have a special set of textures for that case (glass, rotating prop blades, pilots, and one for the wheels), you might want me to send them to you for the reference.
The case is, we use different techniques modeling the wheels - ours are alpha-cut, yours are meshes. Since that, you don't have to worry about that texture of ours, and may find a place for the wheels on the plane's skin.
Q.
I think that it would be wise to use your wooden prop textures (assuming its a two bladed prop effect like the P11c). I would like to use a separate texture for the wheels though if possible. Is that wheel texture for all the planes in IL2? If so, can I use a really small texture .. 32x32 or 64x64 for my wheels?
A: Yes, we'll have the rotating prop pointing to the wooden prop texture. Not stationary, though - you don't want it to be transparent, do you?.
As for the wheels - put it on the skin. Or if necessary, on a separate texture, you've got my permission.
Q.
On the question about unit markings/insginia.
I understand that the markings in the game will be on separate .tga files (if my assumption is correct). If we design the insignias and the unit/squadron markings for our custom planes
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