[Boris The Spider]

I'm probably going to be very unpopular here for this but....

I've been looking at some of the new, and overall wonderful maps made by the community. I'm not at all trying to cast a bad light on the hard work the mapmakers have done but on most every map I see errors that make building on sections of it next to impossible if not impossible altogether. Objects out of alignment, houses on roads and buildings. Harbors in particular tend to upset me the most. Here are three screenshots form the Channel Map for example:







As a mission builder I can't work with this. There is no good way to cover it up or fix it.

Now you're probably fuming at me right now and saying "If you can do better..."
Better or not, just a bit of attention to basic detail can result in harbors like these I've done for various maps and templates:















I was the Leader for the Team Normandie Template series and a member of the Team Italia and Team Kyushu template teams. As the Team Normandie Leader I went over every bit of work submitted and made sure gross errors were fixed or altered to make the most realistic map possible.

Now I haven't (yet) made a map so have no real idea of what all is involved. Maybe I'm just talking out my a r s e but all I'm saying is spend a little time making sure that the alignments and placement of objects are better. I'm sure you are already spending hundreds, if not thousands of hours on these maps but a few hours more would put the icing on the cake. These errors make otherwise wonderful maps difficult for the mission/template maker to work with and spoil an otherwise fine job.

What I'm hoping to hear back is "...they were properly placed but during the transfer from map template to in-game map things shift..."

Sorry if I stepped on some toes. I don't mean this to be taken as a harsh criticism of the fine work the map making community does, just an observation and suggestion for even better future maps.

[lowfighter]

Well this must be good old Beebop! :wink:
I do agree with your observations. And I think it's good to come with this sort of criticism, it will help making quality maps. One thing which is important: these maps are often made by people which are still LEARNING how to do them (and everybody here is still learning I guess), so they learn as they build, and this is really crazy as there's no systematic approach at hand to read etc
Just a quick one: usually houses on the roads are connected with usage of a prog (AUTOPOP) which populates automatically the town etc using a sort of mission template. It's the only way for populating large and densely populated maps (e.g. the Alps beta one has some 4 million! objects). The prog works fine and if it's run after the road network was drawn on the map there'll be NO buidings on the road, but possibly people used it before drawing the roads...then the prog doesn't know about them roads lol. For small maps (small actors static) which can be opened in FMB map mode, the clearing of the roads can be done with a command in FMB. Bigger actors.static maps can't be opened in FMB map mode. It is possible though to break the actors into smaller parts and open them individually in FMB and do all the corrections, then just merge the smaller actors into the "master" one. However this becomes tiresome, a map like the the Alps or Asheshouse Battle of France have to be split in many many parts ... maybe up to 30-40 for the Alps...

Welcome

[canonuk]

Beta, beta, beta, beta.

[fly_zo]

Well this must be good old Beebop! :wink:
I

well if so then ..... welcome m8

as Cannon said, it is first beta version ,so object displacement is a minor issue at this stage ....

btw, tools for making your objects ( mission template) to be part of certain map are here available for free download and composing actors.static file isn't much of a problem ( as long as you only add objects to it ) so please give it a try . I 'm really looking forward to see your work m8 ( i really mean it )

cheers
Z

[dup]

Yeah !!!

Where can we find those templates ?

[canonuk]

btw, tools for making your objects ( mission template) to be part of certain map are here available for free download and composing actors.static file isn't much of a problem ( as long as you only add objects to it ) so please give it a try .

Actually, I'd rather you didn't. I don't want anyone doing anything to my map and releasing different versions/additions etc. I'm happy for people to make regular mission templates but I don't want people altering the actors.static that comes with my map.

Thanks

[lowfighter]

Yeah !!!

Where can we find those templates ?

On M4T, plus many others worth...

[lowfighter]

Why not, for personal use it's not gonna do any harm. I admit that if someone modifies your map and offers it for download, maybe that will cause you some anger. However, don't FORGET that you use TEXTURES and OBJECTS which the authors didn't give you permission to use (Oleg and team, right?). So I don't think you have the right to ask that nobody changes your map for community usage. Say if I fly with a couple of buddies online (I don't lol), and if I think I can make your map better such that my buddies enjoy it more, what's the problem? Maybe you can ask that anyone which modifies your map and intends to share in a wide sense with community ask your permission, and with that I fully agree...

btw, tools for making your objects ( mission template) to be part of certain map are here available for free download and composing actors.static file isn't much of a problem ( as long as you only add objects to it ) so please give it a try .

Actually, I'd rather you didn't. I don't want anyone doing anything to my map and releasing different versions/additions etc. I'm hwppy for people to make regular mission templates but I don't want people altering the actors.static that comes with my map.

Thanks

[fly_zo]

Actually, I'd rather you didn't. I don't want anyone doing anything to my map and releasing different versions/additions etc. I'm happy for people to make regular mission templates but I don't want people altering the actors.static that comes with my map.

Thanks

well, i didn't mean on your map ... i meant in general as new mods

should be more clear though ....sorry


but i do agree with Lowfighter here .... its been really too much of "my map" attitude lately for my taste ...heck if Lowfighter didn't start this whole thing with his solutions and discoveries .... we wouldn't have any map mods .... not to mention map tools designers ...

Z

[canonuk]

...heck if Lowfighter didn't start this whole thing with his solutions and discoveries .... we wouldn't have any map mods .... not to mention map tools designers ...

And equally if I hadn't made this map this map wouldn't exist...

People don't say Mona Lisa isn't Da Vinci's painting because he didn't invent the paint, or the canvas. He used the tools available to create something which wouldn't have existed if he had done otherwise. The 'ownership' is in using the tools to make something unique, and so by virtue of that it is 'my map'.

[fly_zo]

...heck if Lowfighter didn't start this whole thing with his solutions and discoveries .... we wouldn't have any map mods .... not to mention map tools designers ...

And equally if I hadn't made this map this map wouldn't exist...

People don't say Mona Lisa isn't Da Vinci's painting because he didn't invent the paint, or the canvas. He used the tools available to create something which wouldn't have existed if he had done otherwise. The 'ownership' is in using the tools to make something unique, and so by virtue of that it is 'my map'.

...but if i draw a mustache on copy of mona lisa , offer it freely to others ( with full credit given) and people find it useful .... where is the harm .... i bet DaVinci wouldn't mind ( after he stop with laughing ...)

but its your work and your decision regarding copyrights .....

regards
Z

[lowfighter]

What is really beautiful about all this is the freedom and from this freedom the million ideas buzzing around, I hope it will stay this way, and I know you hope that too...

.... its been really too much of "my map" attitude lately for my taste ...

Z

[fly_zo]

What is really beautiful about all this is the freedom and from this freedom the million ideas buzzing around, I hope it will stay this way, and I know you hope that too...

.... its been really too much of "my map" attitude lately for my taste ...

Z

yup m8 .... like with all new things there was great enthusiasm and good will at the beginning , and then some people come and ego interferes ( as fabianfred pointed out ) ...it happens every time .

For my part .... i won't install any mod with rights reserved , and i do trust there will always be some people which will offer they work freely to community so i will have some mods to choose from ....

or i'll make my owns :wink:

Z

[Dixiecapt]

These aren't Opinons, I'm just thinking out loud here so no one get pissy with me..

If any one was worried about conflicts between their work and an edited version of their work, then hold on to your work until you feel its 100% complete and don't release Beta's of a WIPs. Then when you do release mark the version well so any later altered versions can't be confused for the version you released. That being said I understand how Beta Releases can help someone out, this is just a thought.
if that makes sence....


Also where I like what Low and Fly are saying, I can't see anyone changing the Slot Map, then re-leasing their own version for download with out upsetting the Pacific Team, even if they did give credit.

This all peaked my interest because I'd done something like this and gotten my head bitten off for it. (For good reason? *shrug*, probably.), I had made a copy of Chris Blairs White Sun Blue Sky Campaign COOP friendly then asked if anyone wanted it via E-mail, and was eaten for Lunch afterwards! *chuckle*

Edit: Also I don't see much difference from what I did Above, and what is being done in the AAA Campaign Topic where someone is making Versions of Campaigns with Modded Aircraft. Basicly thats altering someones work. Now, I'm not making any comments on the ethics of such. More so just trying to find out where the line is with that. IS the line different when it comes to Maps vs Campaigns?

Anyways just some (hopefully none irritating) thoughts on the subject,

[fly_zo]

These aren't Opinons, I'm just thinking out loud here so no one get pissy with me..

If any one was worried about conflicts between their work and an edited version of their work, then hold on to your work until you feel its 100% complete and don't release Beta's of a WIPs. Then when you do release mark the version well so any later altered versions can't be confused for the version you released. That being said I understand how Beta Releases can help someone out, this is just a thought.
if that makes sence....


Also where I like what Low and Fly are saying, I can't see anyone changing the Slot Map, then re-leasing their own version for download with out upsetting the Pacific Team, even if they did give credit.

This all peaked my interest because I'd done something like this and gotten my head bitten off for it. (For good reason? *shrug*, probably.), I had made a copy of Chris Blairs White Sun Blue Sky Campaign COOP friendly then asked if anyone wanted it via E-mail.

well, there will be no mod conflicts here ...on my watch anyway

i'm really careful when testing and placing mods for download so no overwriting wouldn't happen .... that is why i insist in placing author's prefix in map name ( and its folder) .

off course this only applies for official AAA mods .... beta mods are always tricky

regards
Z