[MOD] AI Mod V.17 *UPDATE* - Printable Version
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+--- Thread: [MOD] AI Mod V.17 *UPDATE* (/showthread.php?tid=58844)
- rockyalexander - 22.01.2009
I have the nav lights off mod and I'm sure that's what's conflicting, but I can't find a folder for it. Does anyone know how to uninstall? (the nav lights off mod, I mean).
- certificate - 22.01.2009
SandMan Wrote:AI wingmen (in .12, haven't tried .13 yet) don't seem to do much but follow the leader. I spent a good deal of time stalking a MiG pair in my 109E and finally managed a crossing deflection shot that lit the lead MiG on fire. All the while I could ignore the wingman since he did absolutely nothing aggressive ... until his leader was shot down, then he went full aggressive.
It was a bit odd having the wingman AI totally disregard my presence. Occasionally we were almost in formation together, both of us trying to get closer to the lead MiG.
Good to know, I'll have a look at this.
- fractional - 22.01.2009
SandMan Wrote:AI wingmen (in .12, haven't tried .13 yet) don't seem to do much but follow the leader. I spent a good deal of time stalking a MiG pair in my 109E and finally managed a crossing deflection shot that lit the lead MiG on fire. All the while I could ignore the wingman since he did absolutely nothing aggressive ... until his leader was shot down, then he went full aggressive.
It was a bit odd having the wingman AI totally disregard my presence. Occasionally we were almost in formation together, both of us trying to get closer to the lead MiG.
I think this is a feature of Oleg's default AI routine. The wingmen (#2, #4) do nothing against enemy fighters and almost always follow the leads. (Except a few rare times; when the lead is *actually* under fire, they engage the enemy that's on the lead's tail).
Instead of engaging only when the lead guy is under fire, can the wingman be programmed to engage the enemy on his lead's tail when it is a bit far away (from opening fire)? And when the wingman engages, it never disengages, until it has shot down the enemy, or has been shot down itself. Can you write a *scare away and rejoin* routine?
Maybe all these factors- stick to the lead like glue, engage while lead is under fire, engage while enemy is approaching on six, engage the enemy and don't let him go, scare away and rejoin- can be combined so that the wingman follows any one randomly? Combined with appropriate weights of course, for example "engage while enemy is approaching on six" should have more weight than the first 2 options. (My personal opinion entirely)
Another thing I feel is that in combat, the wingman follows the lead a bit too closely. Combat formation should be a bit loose, isn't it?
S.
- Leady - 22.01.2009
Quote:At one time, I saw a P51 get between a wingman and his lead and sit in the gunsights of the wingman. The wingman did nothing but continued to maintain station on his lead. Then after the P51 fired on the lead and Split S away, the wingman rolled over and pursued the P51. The lead survived.
This is common of all average AI with the old Oleg AI. Wingmen will only react when their lead goes evasive. I suspect with the new AI routine if a leader doesn't notice the attacking aircraft because of the new script the wingman won't engage. I'm wondering if the "follow leader till leader attacked" script needs to be replaced with "follow leader till enemy gets within 400m of leader then attack that enemy". This new script would result in the wingman attacking bombers as well, because when their leader gets within 400m of an enemy bomber the wingman will attack. A line of script will of course need to be added which says "if leader attacked, go to him and hunt down his attacker" This would result in nice realistic brawls instead of pairs playing an unrealistic and dangerous game of follow the leader.
As a side note the number of Mustangs killed by 190's is probably because the lead 190 noticed much later than normal he had a Mustang on his tail and when he did the Mustang was in his wingmans gun sight!!
With Oleg AI, I would always take advantage of these routines by going guns on wingman but if unsuccsessfull push through to hit the leader who is was programed to attack me as soon as the wingman detected me.
(I Love the new 1.13 AI by the way!!)
Cheers
Leady
- certificate - 22.01.2009
fractional Wrote:SandMan Wrote:AI wingmen (in .12, haven't tried .13 yet) don't seem to do much but follow the leader. I spent a good deal of time stalking a MiG pair in my 109E and finally managed a crossing deflection shot that lit the lead MiG on fire. All the while I could ignore the wingman since he did absolutely nothing aggressive ... until his leader was shot down, then he went full aggressive.
It was a bit odd having the wingman AI totally disregard my presence. Occasionally we were almost in formation together, both of us trying to get closer to the lead MiG.
I think this is a feature of Oleg's default AI routine. The wingmen (#2, #4) do nothing against enemy fighters and almost always follow the leads. (Except a few rare times; when the lead is *actually* under fire, they engage the enemy that's on the lead's tail).
Instead of engaging only when the lead guy is under fire, can the wingman be programmed to engage the enemy on his lead's tail when it is a bit far away (from opening fire)? And when the wingman engages, it never disengages, until it has shot down the enemy, or has been shot down itself. Can you write a *scare away and rejoin* routine?
Maybe all these factors- stick to the lead like glue, engage while lead is under fire, engage while enemy is approaching on six, engage the enemy and don't let him go, scare away and rejoin- can be combined so that the wingman follows any one randomly? Combined with appropriate weights of course, for example "engage while enemy is approaching on six" should have more weight than the first 2 options. (My personal opinion entirely)
Another thing I feel is that in combat, the wingman follows the lead a bit too closely. Combat formation should be a bit loose, isn't it?
S.
I commented on this earlier in the thread:
Quote:2. Wingman behavior. I'm of the opinion that the wingmen are currently far too willing to go down in a hail of shells while they're covering their flight lead. Of course, reducing this behavior would also mean that they're less willing to do it when you're the flight lead.
I've flown online extensively, and I never see the type of wingman tactics that the AI executes. It's preferable to loosen up way before the enemy is on you, so the enemy has to try to choose someone to attack while making sure the wingman isn't maneuvering into position to help.
Keeping a tight line astern formation while someone is closing on your 6 is incredibly stupid, and I intend to fix it.
- Radoye - 22.01.2009
Speaking of wingmen, would it be possible to get the lead-wingman pair do a Thach Weave? At least for the USN birds...
- fly_zo - 22.01.2009
LAL_RONE Wrote:GREAT !!
A single question about IA : Do you think it is possible to decrease gunners skill ?
Because, even a rookie is a sniper !
+1
would very much appreciate this .... if possible
Z
- nearmiss - 22.01.2009
Couple passing thoughts
It would be terrific to have some type of probability function that allowed you to get on the six of the enemy without him knowing it. You wouldn't have to have it all the time, just every now and then.
One other thing would be the ability to keep your flight groups from engaging with every enemy aircraft they see. It is impossible to build any kind of tactical elements into missions. I have only been able to hold out my wingman and everyone else jumped into the fire.
It would also be a big plus to call off squad and other flights when they are flying around attacking ground targets get flaked to pieces. How many times have I experienced a complete loss of all aircraft, because my flight mates weren't out of gas or bullets. They keep attacking ground targets with guns and eventually were blasted by the flak.
This is a great add-on and probably one of the best to come along for offline players for ages.
Oleg, has always favored the ONLINE play so competent AI was never a factor. Besides ... a competent realistic acting AI performance takes alot of trial and error testing.
Buddye has done a fabulous job with the AI performance in BOB II WOV. I mean it's awesome, but flying only a few aircraft over the same maps gets boring.
I spent nights hearing the BOB II spits roaring in my ears ... in my dreams. LOL
One thing all mission builders would adore you for... a de-spawn waypoint. It would be awesome to just de-spawn a flight of bombers after they dropped their bombs and headed for home. It would sure be a great help with the FPS. Crashing them into mountains and stuff has been about all you could do. to get rid of them and free up some memory to put some other exciting elements back into missions.
Re: Evaluation v 0.13 - StarGazer - 22.01.2009
B-26! Did I miss a new slot plane or is this a typo or perhaps a substitute :?[/quote]
Hi Jabo,
Yup, wish it was a B-26 - it's a typo.
It should read B24
Cheers.
- rockyalexander - 23.01.2009
Well, it seems one of the sound mods was causing the conflict that was giving me so much grief. Now that I have it worked out, all I can say is WOW!!! Certificate, YOU. ARE. THE. MAN! IL2 feels like a whole new sim! Props to you, Brother!!! I'm looking forward to your next update.
- Grom29 - 23.01.2009
Certificate you are a KING!
Thanks
- WWSandMan - 23.01.2009
certificate Wrote:... (several quotes on AI wingman behavior) ... Keeping a tight line astern formation while someone is closing on your 6 is incredibly stupid, and I intend to fix it.
Looking forward to the fix.
In case it hasn't been said enough, thank you. We appreciate the work you've done, and look forward to future revisions.
Re: Not impressed yet... - skarden - 23.01.2009
zebulon64 Wrote:Did Quick mission FW-190 A6 vs LA5-FN:
Result: LA speeds up to Km/h 500+ and does what usally a FW190 does - you have to chase the LA with at least 500+ meters distance up to 5000 meters. LA always is faster than you - than he tries to catch you - pulling up sharply - b&z on you - dives at steep angles down and up again repeatedly.
What I always read is that with increased hight (3500+ meters) a FW190 - or especially a BF 109 will have a performance advantage.
So for Axis plane player the Ueber AI's is even more dangerous.
Of course that's just one simple mission test. For other this mod have worked wonders already though.
Kind regards,
Zebulon
Makr sure you installed it in the right folder,it defaults to C/ Documents and Settings.they dont do that at all on my rig
- rollnloop - 23.01.2009
Quote:I've flown online extensively, and I never see the type of wingman tactics that the AI executes. It's preferable to loosen up way before the enemy is on you, so the enemy has to try to choose someone to attack while making sure the wingman isn't maneuvering into position to help.
Keeping a tight line astern formation while someone is closing on your 6 is incredibly stupid, and I intend to fix it.
A few thoughts i'd like to share on this:
-before fixing the defensive tactics, there should be more variety in angaging tactics, and AI should not always target the lead aircraft when there's a more easy target (trailing wingman) nearer.
-defnseive tactics:
Two main cases, AI lead/AI wingman, Human lead/AI wingman
AI/AI: when an ennemy aircraft is detected by either wingman or lead, and it is a threat, defensive manoeuvers, including separation if needed (ie threat has one of the pair close to its sight, should start, quality of those depending on skill (ie rookie AI should take longer before go evasive, since he's supposed to have difficulties seeing anything else than the lead he's following) of both AI lead and AI wingman.
AI wingman detection, depending on skills, should also be oriented, ie rookie wingman should only "see" in front of him (so if there's an ennemy between him and the lead, he should be able to see it). Medium AI should also see on the sides (9 to 12 to 3), Veteran on the rear (8 to 12 to 4), Ace more to the rear (7 to 12 to 5). Ace wingman
should not see at 6 beacause it is supposed to keep an eye on its lead. AI wingman having detected abandit on lead's 6 should fire at it, but not follow systematically when the bandit is disengaging. It should follow in fewer cases, randomly. Random chances should be nationality dependant, with germans, japanese, poles, french, italians and US being more agressive, brits and russian more disciplined.
Human lead/AI wingman: AI wingman should always follow human lead and do nothing else, unless ordered "break" by human lead. Depending on skills, it could start to jink when fired at, but still follow the lead until ordered to break. The only case where it hould start do something is when a threat is coming between AI wingman and human lead, obviously aimed at human lead; wingman AI then should start firing at the threat and use the dialogue "XX (he's not necessarily n
- Checkyersix - 23.01.2009
First, thank you thank you thank you for this MOD. I play off-line exclusively and the AI acrobatics were driving me crazy. This really livens up the offline game and gives a real sense that you're flying against another person.
Second, a request - do you think it might be possible to get fighters to fly in formations when they are set to "escort" each other. As it is, the AI will treat fighters as bombers when set to guard them so you get a whole stack of planes madly swooping and diving. It would be great for mission building if we could get the fighters to fly in nice formations.
Cheers and thanks for all the hard work,
CY6