All-Aircraft-Simulations
[MOD] AI Mod V.17 *UPDATE* - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: [MOD] AI Mod V.17 *UPDATE* (/showthread.php?tid=58844)

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- steeldelete - 24.01.2009

Hi Certificate

Thanks for your efforts, this is really needed. For me it is one of the best mods.

I've been reading a lot of books about the air war lately. It seems that all the pilots talk about a dogfight that lasted only for a few minutes, even less. Then they where alone in the sky. Everybody else just vanished. In IL2 the fight goes on and on. I think it would be very (like real) nice to have the opponents go for home after a while. And maybe have some (rookie that get scared and run for home, not right off but when they get hit?) different characters?

Well this is only my opinion. This might not be for everybody. Usually I want to nail the bandit too, and forget about my six. And when I get tired, usually only about 10 minutes, I look around. Well this was usually not the way it was, in real life.

Re: [MOD] AI Mod V.15 *UPDATE* - certificate - 24.01.2009

Xoddam Wrote:certificate,

Mod 1.5 patch:

Bug 1): watched multiple times that my wingman could not maintain altitude a few seconds after take-off and crashed. Wingman look to be crashing into the ground after take-off a lot more than before the mod. Nearly all of them related to take-off.

Bug 2) fighters that are en-route (e.g. first mission of 'storm clouds'; spits that fly over the airfield) but perform weird and almost make suicidal manoeuvres. They go up and down each and every time. They descend and when they nearly crash into the ground, they recover and go up again. I know for sure this behavior was not there before the mod.

Regards,
Mark

Okay, I think I know what's going on with the takeoffs. Should be fixed next version.

- LAL_RONE - 24.01.2009

About bomber do-not-drop-bombs-if-its-not-even-bad-situation, I think it is a regression.
When a bomber is badly damaged, he must drop his bomb load.

Perhaps it should be possible to choose at random if a bomber drops or NOT his bomb load ?

- ROSOBORONEXPORTCORP - 24.01.2009

Hello,

First, thank you for all of the work. It is very neat and a potential revolution.

I totally agree with steeldelete. It would be really good to have some mechanism whereby there would be a certain probability of the AI retreating/escaping before running out of ammo or being shot down.

This could be tied to any of the following:
1) using up a certain amount of ammunition
2) becoming separated from allies (using the same tests as are used for calling for assistance)
3) being outnumbered and not having an altitude advantage.

This would be more realistic (if you read historical accounts most battles ended with most pilots breaking off, becoming separated or fleeing after losing their height/speed advantage after the first pass). This would also help create more realistic attrition rates (for some fronts at least).

Some ideas regarding gunners:

- The Rookie AI often fires almost continuously without adjusting the aim (so that shots are often 30-40 degrees off). It would be nice if their aim was slightly better. In general, it would be good if all of the gunner skill levels were a bit closer together. It might also be nice to slightly increase the frequency or length of bursts for average/veteran AI.

- Many aircraft such as the SB-2 and He-111H6 had heavier armament for the forward gunner. This was primarily for offensive purposes such as suppressing AAA during low altitude attacks (for train busting some He-111H6 were equipped with two mobile MG-FF firing forward - one in the gondola). On the whole it would be nice if the gunners were more likely to fire on ground targets (a feature of the original Il-2 that was later turned off).

- The Il-2, Il-10 and some variants of the Pe-2 have very small ammunition supplies for their top gunners. I would recommend splitting the gunner AI into two types - one for sturmoviks and another for other aircraft. This would allow changes to be made without causing sturmoviks to run out of ammo. This is also realistic - gunners on Li-2s and other aircraft with ShKAS often fired walls of bullets at enemy aircraft before they got within range in order to intimidate them, while Il-2 gunners specially trained to conserved ammo and aimed careful bursts.

I hope these ideas help, S!

- rollnloop - 24.01.2009

I played a few QMB missions today with 1.5 and am happy to report i saw no "roll roll roll" evasive, even against A6Ms.

The gunner behaviour is really immersive until there, congrats !

- Acog - 24.01.2009

Wonderful news and nice mod, I like it!

But, is it feasible or even possible to address one concern I've had for years.

Can you make the AI not exceed their vne? A Oscar should not be able to hang with a 38/47/F4U in a balls out dive that runs around 500+mph IAS.

Is this doable or is it a vain hope?

- larsen - 24.01.2009

Hi guys,

Well i agree with all of you but i think simulating such complex human behaviours should be difficult.
I think one of the problem in the game is that there is a lack of notions like morale. Once i looked at the AI routines and i realized that AI behaviour is mostly based upon skillness but this lead to some limitations.
As an example, i read in a combat report of 5th Air Force about an action above Rabaul the following sentence : "agressive pilots were unexperienced and experienced pilots were unagressive". It is clear that agressivity has nothing to do with skillness (even if we can suppose that high skill pilots should be more confident and hence more agressive) and complex realistic behaviours should resut in mixing both skillness and morale.
But i do not know if certificate could add morale notion in the game. If yes, such a modification will need considerable work.

Anyway, certificate, your work is really tremendous!
Bravo!

- certificate - 24.01.2009

Acog Wrote:Wonderful news and nice mod, I like it!

But, is it feasible or even possible to address one concern I've had for years.

Can you make the AI not exceed their vne? A Oscar should not be able to hang with a 38/47/F4U in a balls out dive that runs around 500+mph IAS.

Is this doable or is it a vain hope?

This is something I've looked at, but haven't really delved into yet. What happens right now is that if TAS is greater than about 80% VNE, they cut their throttle back. The problem is, in a dive, chopping the throttle doesn't mean that you won't exceed VNE. I've considered making them use some rudder and/or levelling off if the aircraft is at, or close to VNE, but I have no idea what effect this would have on the AI's ability to dogfight. Only one way to find out, I suppose.

- Klemm - 24.01.2009

I'm using 0.15 right now and play a mission where i am the wingman. I've switched on the autopilot and it is displaying the 'diving at the ground, pulling up in the last second, climbing and repeat' routine someone mentioned earlier. The AI is also drifting ever more off course while doing this.
My plane is a Bf-109F2/B, but i don't think that matters much, as earlier in this thread spits were mentioned doing this.
Just wanted to emphasize that this is a problem.

- Acog - 24.01.2009

certificate Wrote:
Acog Wrote:Wonderful news and nice mod, I like it!

But, is it feasible or even possible to address one concern I've had for years.

Can you make the AI not exceed their vne? A Oscar should not be able to hang with a 38/47/F4U in a balls out dive that runs around 500+mph IAS.

Is this doable or is it a vain hope?

This is something I've looked at, but haven't really delved into yet. What happens right now is that if TAS is greater than about 80% VNE, they cut their throttle back. The problem is, in a dive, chopping the throttle doesn't mean that you won't exceed VNE. I've considered making them use some rudder and/or levelling off if the aircraft is at, or close to VNE, but I have no idea what effect this would have on the AI's ability to dogfight. Only one way to find out, I suppose.

By all means cook up a special version if you'd like and I'll test that myself. I dont mind puttering around watching the AI, as long as it may lead to being able to have coops again and not end up throwing the PC on the floor from frustration.

PM if you'd like to go that route. No need to taint your dev tree with a vne test bed. But like I said, I'd be more than happy to help test that.

- certificate - 24.01.2009

Klemm Wrote:I'm using 0.15 right now and play a mission where i am the wingman. I've switched on the autopilot and it is displaying the 'diving at the ground, pulling up in the last second, climbing and repeat' routine someone mentioned earlier. The AI is also drifting ever more off course while doing this.
My plane is a Bf-109F2/B, but i don't think that matters much, as earlier in this thread spits were mentioned doing this.
Just wanted to emphasize that this is a problem.

Are you at, or near an airfield, perchance?

- Doolittle81 - 24.01.2009

Fantastic MOD, certificate...Truly a quantum leap forward for IL2, finally correcting a missing aspect since the opening days of the Series.

One has to wonder whether Oleg is watching/listening...The demand for truly intelligent AI in SOW:BoB will be immense! It will be a shame if SOW:BofB is released without such AI, only to require brilliant MODders to swim upstream to make the Sim work as it should for Offliners.

There should be a major lesson learned here for Oleg:1C.

Thanks, again, for such a wonderful MOD.

- Klemm - 24.01.2009

certificate Wrote:Are you at, or near an airfield, perchance?
The behaviour started after i let the AI take off and then continued for some minutes (i ran 8x time acceleration, so only for about half a minute in real time). Sorry, i don't know if i had reached the first waypoint after i turned off the AI and flew the mission for myself.
In any case i was at least 10 to 20 km away from the airfield i started from and the behaviour continued.
Oh, and i Just noticed that this AI behaviour stops when it gets over 500 meters or so (gotta check more closely).

- Username - 24.01.2009

Doolittle81 Wrote:One has to wonder whether Oleg is watching/listening...

He is, supposedly, a registered member of this site:

(The link is inoperative)

(The link is inoperative)

- RRuger - 24.01.2009

I had an interesting experience last night over the 'Channel' Usually when a FW190 gets