[MOD] "WIP" XP-86 Sabre v1.02 *update* need skinne - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: [MOD] "WIP" XP-86 Sabre v1.02 *update* need skinne (/showthread.php?tid=60407)

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- duffys tavern - 12.04.2009

Just a thought. There are some planes such as the Mig 9 & new Typhoon that show the pilot wearing his oxygen mask, all the time. This, I think, would look swell on the F-86 pilot.

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- PeterD - 13.04.2009

Wow... I'm back from a trip, lots of questions in here!

I'll try to answer some of them, most have already been answered anyway

Mirror/distortion when the aircraft fuselage is heavily damaged: I am aware of it, will be fixed (hopefully in the next release)
Airbrakes not working: airbrakes are DISABLED, just like in the P-80 and YP-80.
Slats not working: same as above
No droptanks: pretty much the same as above
Lose the nose and the front gear still works: It was reported already, I think I can fix it, but I'm not 100% sure.
Crappy default template: sorry about that, skinning is not my thing :|
EDIT:
Errors in the top/bottom wings mapping: if you could be more specific on this one I'd appreciate it

I'm still reading the thread so i'll edit/add answers later

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- F22-Raptor-2006 - 13.04.2009

reguarding the mapping etc I'll PM you with more details and screenshots when I have time. I need to do my coursework right now, on a tight schedule :S

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- PeterD - 13.04.2009

Thanks Raptor, appreciate it

duffys tavern: I can make the pilot wear the mask at all times (I think), would this be historically correct?

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- US_GRANT - 13.04.2009

PeterD Wrote:Thanks Raptor, appreciate it

duffys tavern: I can make the pilot wear the mask at all times (I think), would this be historically correct?

Hey Pete,
Actually, when to wear an oxygen mask was usually up to personal preference below 10,000 ft. Above that it was mandatory because of Hypoxia. With the advent of the jet age, wearing the oxygen mask pretty much became standard because pilots had the microphone built into the mask and that is still the case today. It's just easier to put it on and leave it there. One less thing to have to worry about. British pilots wore thiers all the time because of the microphone situation. American pilots, at the begining of the war were using hand held microphones to talk on the radios. Later they switched to throat mics and eventually by the end of the war were wearing oxygen masks with the mics built in.

The long and short of it is, by the time of the Korean War (yes war), The wearing of the mask became fairly standard at all altitudes so it woudldn't be out of character to have the mask on all the time.

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- JG14_Jagr - 13.04.2009

Peter,
I wouldn't worry too much about the template. Its time consuming and there are others that can share that burden while you focus on what you do best.. 3D models

When you get a moment, go to this page and watch the video at the bottom. Specifically look at the helmet the pilot is wearing.

http://sectionf8.com/index.html

Thats the later variant which was used right up through the 60's

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- duffys tavern - 13.04.2009

Peter, for the KTO era, masks were worn just about all the time, even when sitting on the runway. Would be neat to see this for your F-86, the F-80, F4U, F-51, etc. Any help would be appreciated.

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- elephant - 13.04.2009

This is not a bad idea...
Any possibility for the mask to be "worn" only attached to the left side of the helmet, at lower altittudes?
JG14_Jagr, I gave that link earlier... I think that the pilot of the f8 sabre is the best, (most lifelike), representation of a pilot in a game ever!
The helmet the f8 pilot is wearing, is the P-3B, more suitable for F86-E models and on, (1952+)
The one Peter has modelled is the P-1B with B8 goggles, that was used throughout the War.
I would like to make some suggestions reggarding the shape of the helmet to Peter but I'd rather explain myself better with schematics.
I also believe that the mask looks a bit too big and a reduction by 5-10% is nessesary.
Have a look at the progress so far on the detailed Korean War pilot skins I'm making, in this thread:

http://allaircraftsimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14018

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- Stratodog - 13.04.2009

I also vote for the oxygen mask on idea. I've got a lot of pictures of F-86's taxiing to and from the runway at Suwon and Kimpo. In the vast majority of the pictures the mask is on.

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- PeterD - 14.04.2009

Some changes I've done so far to the aircraft skin, I hope the skinners will welcome them:

1- The side panel mirroring that appears when the fuselage is very damaged is fixed
2- The air intake (the inner sides of it) is remapped differently, now it's a side view instead of a stretched front view, so it is much easier to paint the black shadow in it. Bear with me though, most of it is meant to be black. I'll show an example later.
3- The canopy frame will have the inner sides separated from the exterior side, so you can have the name of the pilot in it (for example) and it won't show inside the cockpit as it is now.
4- The nose is getting some changes, mostly to be able to have a decent radar dome in it.
5- I modified the gun ports a few weeks back so they were carved properly in the nose, this has some drawbacks atm (minor minor stretching) that I am still fixing so that you don't need to redo the whole nose.
6- Overall, the whole shape of the nose and parts of the fuselage have been tweaked. This, in addition to the changes to the air intake gives it a better look, it is not easy to see the changes but it's most obvious from a top view.
7- Wingtips bottom mapping error has been fixed.
8- I've added room for the seat headrest in the skin

And that's pretty much it I think

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- US_GRANT - 14.04.2009

Hey PeterD, Glad You're back.

Good to see all the improvements you're making. Great work, by the way.
If I'm not being to forward, I'd like to point out a few things that might help with your work. Some things I noticed while working with your template.

The first thing I noticed was that after adding some panel lines and such was that the bottom of the centerline fuselage has a small area that stretches. Not sure if that can be fixed. No biggy, we can live with it. Also, the wing root fairing; where does the computer take that from to make it? since I painted the wing tips red on this one, that popped up. Just wandering so I know where to look.


Second.
Aft fuselage warpping. I know it is part of the mapping over the shape. Just thought you'd like to know since a lot of numbering can be done in that area and with all the new skins being done some acft ID numbers end up there.


Third.
Mid fuselage panel line. This one had me stumped for a while when I was trying to add the additional panels. The reference material I was using kept showing the fuel receptecle on the left side forward of the mid-fuselage line but in the middle of the stripe running around the fuselage. It wasn't until I figured out the panel line was at more of an angle than in the reference material and I corrected it that things started falling into place. All I did was to "rotate" the line and rivets a little to bring them more into the angle I found and "smudge" the lines on the metal layer.


I hope these things will be taken into the equation as you tweak your plane for final release. You've done an outstanding job so far and all of us who are skinning this greatly appreciate your efforts.
Can't wait to see what you do with the MiG-15. I already stocked up on pics of it to start a new batch of skins.

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- F22-Raptor-2006 - 14.04.2009

I noticed that "panel line stretching" on the bottom wing was also different colour on mine... I had a yellow big triangle on the underside of my plane but a blue dot there for no reason since it's mapped somewhere on the top wing or something i believe.

The Warping is annoying but fine to fix. Grant if you want me to i can fix that lettering for you.

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- US_GRANT - 14.04.2009

Raptor,
Any help is appreciated.

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- F22-Raptor-2006 - 14.04.2009

US_GRANT Wrote:Raptor,
Any help is appreciated.

Well if you send me those few tail layers with the numbers and the fuselage tail i'll sort it for u.

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- PeterD - 14.04.2009

US_GRANT Wrote:

The red color in the wing root comes from the wingtip yes. Looks like you extended too much the wingtip texture. Those parts are not overlapping on the UV template so hum... not my fault!
Panel line warping fixed.

Quote:Second.
Aft fuselage warpping. I know it is part of the mapping over the shape. Just thought you'd like to know since a lot of numbering can be done in that area and with all the new skins being done some acft ID numbers end up there.

Yeah that part is a pain in the ass. Originally the tail had a "regular" stretching on it but I changed it since Lieuwe complained about the US marking showing up as elliptical. That horrible stretching is the side effect of said change and to fix it would mean redoing the whole tail again, so it's staying like that for now.

Third.

Quote:Mid fuselage panel line. This one had me stumped for a while when I was trying to add the additional panels. The reference material I was using kept showing the fuel receptecle on the left side forward of the mid-fuselage line but in the middle of the stripe running around the fuselage. It wasn't until I figured out the panel line was at more of an angle than in the reference material and I corrected it that things started falling into place. All I did was to "rotate" the line and rivets a little to bring them more into the angle I found and "smudge" the lines on the metal layer.

That line in particular can be messy since that's where the tail breaks. It's not a big deal but I suppose it won't look "right" when the aircraft loses the tail. For now I won't touch it since that would mean modifying several meshes, then modifying a ton of UV maps and since that is a pain in the ass, it would take me forever.

Quote:I hope these things will be taken into the equation as you tweak your plane for final release. You've done an outstanding job so far and all of us who are skinning this greatly appreciate your efforts.
Can't wait to see what you do with the MiG-15. I already stocked up on pics of it to start a new batch of skins.

Thanks a lot for the bug report, I appreciate it . Keep looking for more errors but also keep in mind that there may be some other things that I just cannot fix without redoing the whole thing :|

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