P-47 Thunderbolt cockpit modding references and discussion - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: P-47 Thunderbolt cockpit modding references and discussion (/showthread.php?tid=51680)

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- chris455 - 20.09.2008

Well,
A bit of history is in order here:
When Forgotten Battles was first released and I saw the P-47 pit for the firts time, I posted that 60% of the gauges were missing or did not work, the textures weree horrible,the colors were wrong and the lens of the gunsight just abysmal, all in the politest language I could muster, be sure.
I got 1 reply, which stated, (if you can believe this)
" The p-47 cockpit is just fine as it is. What can be done about the Fw-190 sight, it's too low!"

And the rest, as they say, is history.
No one appreciates what you're doing more than I do, Taurus (and you too, Poncho) :wink:

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- RAF_Leigh - 20.09.2008

well thats great

praise comes from the heart

and yours does


and i like all of this

S! RAF_Leigh

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- Guest - 20.09.2008

Now I know why I never flied Thunderbolt, it was just too ugly. And now Flushy is making textures for redone cockpit, that’s beautiful. I can see that P47 will be among my favorite planes.

And guys don’t forget the “customizable girlfriend picture spot” to include. I can see that’s very popular these days

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- Catahoulak9 - 20.09.2008

You're so right Avala, it really makes a difference..

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- Handy - 21.09.2008

so is FlushMeister releasing his modified textures separately?

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- taurus - 21.09.2008

@Chris455, was that an official UBI answer?

Some more texture prep for the D.



Now to find pic spot be sure...

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- chris455 - 21.09.2008

Taurus,
No, it was an answer from one of the more senior mrmbers of the community. The effect it had, sadly was that it pretty much killed any meaningful discussion about improving the P-47 pit
Greta looking shots BTW

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- FA_Diablo - 22.09.2008

Chris.....I remember those days and you are so right. Nobody...Oleg included cared for the Jug. Only a few of us really dedicated jug pilots kept up the fight thru the years. It is so refreshing to see serious work being done. The FM and DM was porked cause Oleg said himself....the p-47 was no fighter.

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- Boosher - 22.09.2008

Well, just playing through devil's advocate here, in Russia it wasn't. The lend-lease tests and operational sorties that the Soviets did with the P-47 very quickly proved in their minds that the plane could not be used as a fighter in their war. It was a different kind of air war that the P-47 was wholly unsuited for. Instead, it was used as a light bomber with the 255 IAP in an anti-shipping role for a few months, then rotated out of service. So looking back on history with a Russian perspective, Oleg is right. We also have to remember that the P-47's we sent as part of lend-lease were not the quality P-47's that we used on the Western front. Most of the lend-lease thunderbolts had de-rated engines, and were much earlier versions. The first one sent over, a D-10 by the name of "Knight of Pythias" which was donated by a group of US Senators, was a dog.

While I agree injustice has been done to the Jug, we still saw people fighting with it quite successfully a soon as it became available. I only just got the hang of the heavy bird and I love it, although skinning for it is a tad annoying. I am very enthusiastic about the cockpit re-paint and can't wait until it's done!

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- poncho - 22.09.2008

Diablo, Chris,

I first started flying the Jug to practice B&Z tactics. I was also disappointed in the pit, but I learned to love the jug like an ugly but faithful dog. The position of the RB sight seemed like some kind of cruel joke. I followed your posts hopefully at the ubi forums, sure that a fix would soon come. That was not to be, but thanks to AAA we were given the tools to channel our frustrations in a productive way.

I am a little behind schedule in my BT remodel, but I have all of the parts I wanted now and require some trial and error work to get them positioned. Maybe some SS by Tuesday.


Poncho

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- FA_Diablo - 22.09.2008

poncho we cannot thank you, taurus and thirdeye enough. I know others are involved in this process as well and to all that are helping to make "her" what she should ahve been in the start a big ~S~.

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- chris455 - 22.09.2008

Boosher brings up alot of good- and truthful- points, and although we all remain indebted to Oleg for the creation of IL-2 in the first place, it cannot be ignored that the p-47 was neglected in ways that go far beyond the Russian perspective that it "wasn't a fighter".
Oleg borrowed this term. He did not coin it.
A Soviet test pilot used this term after testing the Jug in late '43. He also added that it was heavier, and had greater armament, than the Pe-2, which was the standard VVS medium bomber at that stage of the war. Thus, in the Russian mind, the P-47 becomes a fat, useless, expensive flying contraption that is ill suited for the role it was designed for, and too expensive for the role it was useful for.
The areas where the game engine could not allow the Jug to shine, were in those areas that made it so formidable, namely, high altitude performance; this was not Oleg's fault, but a nuance of the game engine, that nonetheless robbed the P-47 of the envelope where it's performance truly shined; In the areas of firepower, we all know that the Russians did not load their Jugs w/ the same loadout as the USAAF, thus hobbling the terrific firepower of the Jug; and in terms of ruggedness, anyone who knows the breed will tell you that a P&W R2800 engine could withstand rifle caliber fire very well. There was no radiator or coolant plumbing to puncture and the whole unit is so massive that most .30 cal amo would simply ricochet off at most angles of attack. Most, I said, not all. Even so, if Thirdeye can mod the DM of the P-47, and the whole lovely package be combined with Taurus and Poncho's superb work, we may yet see a P-47 in the game that, for the first time, truly represents the mighty engine of war the "Repugnant Blunderbuss" really was. :wink:

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- I_B_Spectre - 22.09.2008

chris455 Wrote:The areas where the game engine could not allow the Jug to shine, were in those areas that made it so formidable, namely, high altitude performance; this was not Oleg's fault, but a nuance of the game engine, that nonetheless robbed the P-47 of the envelope where it's performance truly shined

Keeping in mind the age of the IL-2 game engine, that is understandable, although AFAIK the game engine was created by Oleg and company. Considering the namesake "IL-2 Sturmovik", it is forgivable that the game engine design focused on low altitude. Too, the Eastern Front was a far different aerial battlefield than that of the ETO where things happened routinely at high altitude. Hindsight being 20/20, who knew it would have the staying power to span the theaters we enjoy? Whether due to a lack of foresight or computing/graphical limitations of the time is a matter of conjecture. Still, we have what we have with all its bumps and warts. We are fortunate the incredibly talented modding community is proving what was previously shrugged off as being impossible is do-able. SoW will likely not replace IL-2 on my hard drive until it has comparable scope (PTO, MTO, etc.) and I don't see that happening in my gaming lifetime.[/u]

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- chris455 - 22.09.2008

I_B_Spectre Wrote:Keeping in mind the age of the IL-2 game engine, that is understandable, although AFAIK the game engine was created by Oleg and company. Considering the namesake "IL-2 Sturmovik", it is forgivable that the game engine design focused on low altitude. Too, the Eastern Front was a far different aerial battlefield than that of the ETO where things happened routinely at high altitude. Hindsight being 20/20, who knew it would have the staying power to span the theaters we enjoy? Whether due to a lack of foresight or computing/graphical limitations of the time is a matter of conjecture. Still, we have what we have with all its bumps and warts. We are fortunate the incredibly talented modding community is proving what was previously shrugged off as being impossible is do-able. SoW will likely not replace IL-2 on my hard drive until it has comparable scope (PTO, MTO, etc.) and I don't see that happening in my gaming lifetime.[/u]

Concur 100% :wink:

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- taurus - 24.09.2008

More WIP texture work for the D.

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