The Slot - Printable Version
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+- All-Aircraft-Simulations (https://allaircraftsimulations.com)
+-- Forum: IL2 MAP MODS Download & Discussion (https://allaircraftsimulations.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=269)
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+---- Thread: The Slot (/showthread.php?tid=51379)
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- spud - 03.03.2008
^^^ some of the big campaign builders or the very best campaigns have posted in this thread about using this map.
Build it, and they will come.
tater
- fly_zo - 03.03.2008
vonofterdingen Wrote:I have been watching this work since day one...remember when Skunkmeister was trying to define the scope? Look how far this has gone!
No one take offense, please...but as a humble user and observer, let me give this critical advice: the map is only as good as its missions. How many of you have flown Slovakia? I have not, mainly because there are no missions or campaigns of interest to take me there.
Please get the skilled mission builders involved soon. I am not one now, though I hope to be some day. I will not name any mission builders, since I may insult by omission, but please seek then out and engage them soon.
when i published my normandy-BOB map (which looks funny now but it was the first one with new land ) vpmedia came out with mission pack just two days after ( and many thanks for that )
so spud is right ... if you build it they will come
~S~
Z
- stansdds - 03.03.2008
Absolutely spectacular Ondonga screen!
- FA_Cheech - 03.03.2008
vonofterdingen Wrote:...Please get the skilled mission builders involved soon.
I really don't think that is going to be too much of a problem. As of this writing, this thread has had over 43,000 views and over 1,000 replies, many of which are superb campaign and mission builders. I'm about as sure as I can be that finding missions for The Slot is not going to be too much of a problem. Flying a Zero from Buka to Guadalcanal, and back; well that's another story!
Especially if there are lots of tubby little Wildcats waiting for you. 8)
DCG Slot Question - Dixiecapt - 03.03.2008
I have a Question for Pacific Team...
(Hope this hasen't been covered)
Oh wait firstly, Wooot Its March!
Secondly,
How well will DCG Campaigns work here on this Map? I know the DCG is based off the Russian Front really, you know, where tanks grab the land, Artillery Defends, all need supply from Supply Columns and so forths. Basicly hinting that a System of roads are needed or you can't really get anywhere with your campaign other than in the air.
There would still be a Dynamic Edge to your missions so all wouldn't be lost. For example, your static aircraft beign destroyed on the ground effects how many aircraft can fly out of said airbase next missions and such, so I'm still going to rock this map with a DCG campaign.
One thing I thought of (and I know I'm somewhat into the middle of a rant, but I want to see a Great DCG on this map) Can Warships be used as tanks, or set to be used as tanks if they arent already.
With Warships at tanks, and Transport Ships as Supply Columns dropping Artillery, and tanks on islands, might just be a way to go.
any thoughts?!
Re: DCG Slot Question - FA_Cheech - 03.03.2008
Dixiecapt Wrote:I have a Question for Pacific Team...
(Hope this hasen't been covered)
Oh wait firstly, Wooot Its March!
Secondly,
Basicly hinting that a System of roads are needed or you can't really get anywhere with your campaign other than in the air.
There would still be a Dynamic Edge to your missions so all wouldn't be lost. For example, your static aircraft beign destroyed on the ground effects how many aircraft can fly out of said airbase next missions and such, so I'm still going to rock this map with a DCG campaign.
One thing I thought of (and I know I'm somewhat into the middle of a rant, but I want to see a Great DCG on this map) Can Warships be used as tanks, or set to be used as tanks if they arent already.
With Warships at tanks, and Transport Ships as Supply Columns dropping Artillery, and tanks on islands, might just be a way to go.
any thoughts?!
I can't speak for DCG potential, as a whole, but will try to answer the question about roads.
Roads - Most historical accounts of fighting in the Solomons combat area mention the importance of roads and trails; however, these geographic features in the Solomons and New Guinea, are markedly different than their european counterparts. First of all, in the Pacific area, roads and trails are very primitive and can barely be seen from the air. Placing the IL2 version of them on an island like Bougainville, which has some of the most inpenetrable jungles in the world, is just too visually distracting. In order to support mission builder requirements for simulating combat along areas like the Bougainville's Buin Road, and the Munda Trail, I used clearing textures to open up enough of thejungle to support "mudmoving" missions. This compromise seems to be an acceptable way to handle this situation, without killing the map visually. Bottom line - IL2 road textures are completely inappropriate for this map, hence our decision not to use them.
I think the DCG system, if it will work at all on this map, needs to focus on things you mentioned, like supply ships and destroyers, who did most of the supply work for the Japanese, and static aircraft counts. I'm sure one of the smart DCG guys will chime in with a suitable answer.
- VFS-214_Hawk - 03.03.2008
Its March but I feel Christmas is just a few days away!
- fabianfred - 03.03.2008
as mission builders know....vehicle convoys can be made to travel anywhere...no need for roads....even going through the 'woods' texture without any trouble...and even across rivers (as if they were shallow fords) without too much editing in notepad
- Scharnhorst1943 - 03.03.2008
fabianfred Wrote:as mission builders know....vehicle convoys can be made to travel anywhere...no need for roads....even going through the 'woods' texture without any trouble...and even across rivers (as if they were shallow fords) without too much editing in notepad
Sorry, but as someone exptrememly versed in DCG and how it operates, there is an imperative need for roads.
Let me explain - For those who play offline campaign, the campaign has nothing to do with the air war. The campaign is advance ENTIRELY by the ground war. Anything any air unit does is calculated into how it affects the GROUND WAR. If fighters destroy lots of bombers, then the chances are less likely that bombers destroy tanks. If chances are less likely of tanks being destroyed than tanks chances of tanks advancing farther improve ... I emphasise, the ONLY way to advance a campaign is through the ground war. Now when PF came out, it had the same idea as Forgotten Battles. They changed nothing. So even though the islands may still be small, the same european style tank assault is the only way to advance a campaign.
Now on to a per mission basis. The way it works is that all units go toward the front. They act like lemmings jumping over a cliff. So every mission, the tank column will advance to the next closest location to the front lines. The only way to move front lines in this game (Europe, Pacific or anywhere) is through tank columns. That is that, there is no way around it.
This is why it is imperative that you make roads. As it stands now, your island maps (as Magnifacent and Beautiful and Incredible as they are) are covered in trees. The tanks will move under the canopy just fine. But here is the delema - The player will be assigned missions to destroy these ground units. How the hell is the player going to find, let alone destroy tank columns under tree canopy? This makes armor practically invincible. It is like trying to fight a cloaked Romulan Battlecruiser in an Avenger ... You NEED to put roads if you want your map to be of any practical value to campaign designers, historical or not.
Secondly, it is boring and dull to play as the Japanese and ALWAYS get airstart missions for the whole damn war. Again, not historically accurate, but it is nice to give the Japanese player the option to take off and land on the map. So again, clear an area where campaign designers can put a runway in, or build one into your map so that the other side can do this too.
Just my 2 cents.
- Scharnhorst1943 - 03.03.2008
Before anyone goes after me, I appreciate all the work you guys do. These maps are wonderful, please don't get me wrong. It is just to adapt them fully to work with DCG to squeeze the most out of the game, you need to put in roads. My opinion. I will fly these maps reguardless. Outstanding work everyone.
Re: DCG Slot Question - Scharnhorst1943 - 03.03.2008
Dixiecapt Wrote:I have a Question for Pacific Team...
(Hope this hasen't been covered)
Oh wait firstly, Wooot Its March!
Secondly,
Basicly hinting that a System of roads are needed or you can't really get anywhere with your campaign other than in the air.
There would still be a Dynamic Edge to your missions so all wouldn't be lost. For example, your static aircraft beign destroyed on the ground effects how many aircraft can fly out of said airbase next missions and such, so I'm still going to rock this map with a DCG campaign.
One thing I thought of (and I know I'm somewhat into the middle of a rant, but I want to see a Great DCG on this map) Can Warships be used as tanks, or set to be used as tanks if they arent already.
With Warships at tanks, and Transport Ships as Supply Columns dropping Artillery, and tanks on islands, might just be a way to go.
any thoughts?!
Good idea, I don't know if it can be changed. You would need to do some hardcore research on editing the game, and once you know what you can and can not do there, you could take it up with the creator of DCG. He might do another release and incorporate the changes you want. As it stands currently, it is not possible, I can tell you that. However, in a new version release of DCG, it might be. Maybe if you edit each ship properties ... I don't know. It is possible at least.
There already is a way to transport tanks on ships, but only transport ships. Even if they get dropped off, you still need some kind of road network to connect invasion beaches with the airfields. Basically, DCG knows where everything is and who ownes what through the road network. It is impossible to do without it. Like I said, the AI is stupid. You have to work around it, sadly.
- VFS-214_Hawk - 03.03.2008
Roads? We don't need no stinking roads! :twisted:
- Scharnhorst1943 - 03.03.2008
VFS-214_Hawk Wrote:Roads? We don't need no stinking roads! :twisted:
Oh yea! I got yer' roads right over here. I got 'em right next to my knuckle sandwich, see Rocky? Mea, see? Mea, Mea.
edit: Uh
hock: I was kidding ... :?: sorry?
- spud - 04.03.2008
I understand what you are getting at. Wonder if it would be possible to make invisible roads...
- Scharnhorst1943 - 04.03.2008
spud Wrote:I understand what you are getting at. Wonder if it would be possible to make invisible roads...
Do I understand your statement to mean that you would intend to cut a hole in the tree canopy for the road, but not have a road texture placed down? Just want to clarify.