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DCG - Widowmaker - 05.03.2008

To be honest, I havn't heard one say yet what "change" to DCG would work?

Depending on what you want, that could be a lot of code to be changed.

Im part of the beta test group with DCG and he is making changes constantly.. always improving code, tweaking behaviors etc. But it all depends on what changes you think might work for handling pacific campaigns an the "float". And how intensive those changes would be. I dont think Paul wants to do any heavy re-write.

We did have tanks on the islands in the pacific.. and you can make tanks move across ground without a road on it in DCG.
You can also use the "ferry" road location to have ground units load up onto a ship and then the ship takes them to the next island and offloads them... and on to the next road route section.

Ive used this in a few of my campaigns.

As someone mentioned the end trigger of sinking a CV is usable. as well as a percentage.
If you want the campaign to keep going till ALL the enemy carriers are out, you can use CV=100%.

Also there is a new trigger called wagon8

And you can set it to be a % destroyed of all wagon8 items (fuel rail car)

I use them to place inside buildings at supply depots and main bases for the new heavy bombers to go after.
You can have a heavy bombing campaign that ends once you destroy a certain % of those units.

(this could be any item.. I haven't clarified it with Paul, its just always been referred to as wagon8. I haven't tried it with another static unit)

Ive previously told paul all about AAA, the mods and maps..and while he hasn't looked into it yet, he is intrigued.

But if you want to talk about a new trigger or changing DCG.. you need to decide how you think it should be changed.

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- spud - 05.03.2008

FA_Cheech Wrote:Hey m8, don't sweat the small stuff...no offense taken my friend...hope everything works out at home...your comments and inputs are ALWAYS welcome here

My feelings exactly.

BTW, regarding not seeing stuff in the trees and DCG... CARPET BOMB

Many missions involved mixed USAAF/USMC/USN/RNZAF/RAAF forces. Such missions could have the fighters as cover, and make sure some B-25s and B-24s are around to area bomb the appropriate jungle areas.

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- Scharnhorst1943 - 05.03.2008

There are several triggers, but I don't know how useful any of them will be. There is always the end date. There is also and end location, but that only works for tanks capturing that end location ... Hard to use sinking a CV to trigger a campaign map that does not have carriers in it. Also, if you want to keep track of planes destroyed at a runway, the % "insert object here" destroyed will not work because DCG changes the plane type to that of what is based at the airfield. Not only is it different from what is in the master map, it can change as squadrons get reassigned. So using static aircraft destroyed as a trigger is out. maybe another object can be used? I know you can transport tanks on transports, but I don't know about getting them from island to island. I know you can do it from the main supply zone, but you can only have one main supply zone. Will Transports load tanks from any location? Or do they have to come from the main supply zone? I thought it was the latter ...

Maybe paratrooper dropzones could be used. You could have paratroopers capture airfields or locations on islands ...

Either way, we need the map first, then we can try it with different meathods to see what works best.

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- Scharnhorst1943 - 05.03.2008

I also found something out. I have not made any campaigns on the new maps yet. I have only used the default ones. On the default Guadalcanal map, you are limited on where you can put waypts on the isaland. There are many places the tanks could not go. I got an updated Guadalcanal map and I just noticed how much more freedom in waypts there now are. Before I was concerned because by adding more accurate but more sophisticated terrain, I did not know if there would be a waypt problem. I guess not.

Anyway, this is good news. And as a personal preferance, I would like to have a a small road or trail cut into the tree canopy. However, that can wait for now and I will not be so picky. I will take what is available without complaint.

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- spud - 05.03.2008

Really, the supply source would be off-map. For the Slot, Japanese supply comes from Rabaul.

For the Allies, it comes from Espiritu Santo I guess. Regardless, off map. Later maybe Guadalcanal becomes the supply point. If it needs to be on the map, the anchorage near Florida Island for the US, and Buka for the japanese I guess.

tater

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- Widowmaker - 05.03.2008

Scharnhorst1943 Wrote:There are several triggers, but I don't know how useful any of them will be. There is always the end date. There is also and end location, but that only works for tanks capturing that end location ... Hard to use sinking a CV to trigger a campaign map that does not have carriers in it. Also, if you want to keep track of planes destroyed at a runway, the % "insert object here" destroyed will not work because DCG changes the plane type to that of what is based at the airfield. Not only is it different from what is in the master map, it can change as squadrons get reassigned. So using static aircraft destroyed as a trigger is out. maybe another object can be used? I know you can transport tanks on transports, but I don't know about getting them from island to island. I know you can do it from the main supply zone, but you can only have one main supply zone. Will Transports load tanks from any location? Or do they have to come from the main supply zone? I thought it was the latter ...

Maybe paratrooper dropzones could be used. You could have paratroopers capture airfields or locations on islands ...

Either way, we need the map first, then we can try it with different meathods to see what works best.

You can use other statics than just the planes. IE as I mentioned, Wagon8.
As for using ships to transport tanks/ground units... you can use the ferry option I mentioned.
It is not in the srd file, but in the rds file.
when you come to the end of an island (or to make a river or bay crossing) you name that last location X1_Ferry
Then on the next island ( or otherside of river/bay), you have a location on the beach called X2_Ferry.
Then you use a ship waypoint ( I actually use an aircraft to set the waypoints)....
and the road route becomes [X1_Ferry to X2_Ferry]
When the ground troops reach X1 Ferry, the next mission they will appear on transport ships and they will move towards X2 Ferry. Without intervention, the next mission they will be on land again at X2 Ferry.
(I actually use this method on the hawaii map to move troops to and from ford Island)



Also, you can have more than one supply zone. ANY location ending with _Depot or _Camp will allow ground units to spawn there as long as it is not under contest.
In reference to getting them to load onto ships that follow a srd route, it can be at any location, but the srd route location must match an rds location by name, and end with _Harbor or _Port
IE. RDS location = Jamestown
SRD location = Jamestown_Harbor

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- VFS-214_Hawk - 05.03.2008

need.....more.......screenshots............!

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- Scharnhorst1943 - 05.03.2008

Dixiecapt Wrote:

Skunkmeister Wrote:Ok i'm posting tooo much on this thread, just excited is all.
*sits on hands and simply watches for release*

OK, I seriously had to laugh out loud. Well my friend, that makes two of us :wink:

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- Scharnhorst1943 - 05.03.2008

Widowmaker Wrote:You can use other statics than just the planes. IE as I mentioned, Wagon8.
As for using ships to transport tanks/ground units... you can use the ferry option I mentioned.
It is not in the srd file, but in the rds file.
when you come to the end of an island (or to make a river or bay crossing) you name that last location X1_Ferry
Then on the next island ( or otherside of river/bay), you have a location on the beach called X2_Ferry.
Then you use a ship waypoint ( I actually use an aircraft to set the waypoints)....
and the road route becomes [X1_Ferry to X2_Ferry]
When the ground troops reach X1 Ferry, the next mission they will appear on transport ships and they will move towards X2 Ferry. Without intervention, the next mission they will be on land again at X2 Ferry.
(I actually use this method on the hawaii map to move troops to and from ford Island)



Also, you can have more than one supply zone. ANY location ending with _Depot or _Camp will allow ground units to spawn there as long as it is not under contest.
In reference to getting them to load onto ships that follow a srd route, it can be at any location, but the srd route location must match an rds location by name, and end with _Harbor or _Port
IE. RDS location = Jamestown
SRD location = Jamestown_Harbor

Well thank you very much. I will have to use this Ferry option from now on. And about the wagon8, I just wanted to see if another object could be used. I don't know how historically accurate it would be to be destroying train cars on pacific islands ... I was hoping for another object. Idealy planes at runways would be my first choice, but there is this catch with the way DCG works. Oh well.

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- Widowmaker - 05.03.2008

Well the object trigger is still a bit buggy. Working on it
I put the wagon8 rail car inside hangers, inside fuel tanks, and other buildings to make them "targets". Or next to aircraft revetments


And a few tips on using the ferry.
The route leading up to the Ferry point and leading away from other sides Ferry point, should be all on land.

Then For the actual route the ships will follow. THE [X1_Ferry to X2_Ferry]

Make the first two waypoints and the last two waypoints on land. So the first two way points are on land and then lead into the water.. then the last two are on land at the other end

I use a plane to set the waypoints.. then replace the ending code like so

aircraft waypoint :
NORMFLY 39000.98 49997.57 500.00 300.00 &0

A ships waypoint :
157893.89 318502.53 120.00 0 5 3.055555582046509

so to convert the aircraft waypoints for use in the road route file...
you remove the NORMFLY tag at the front
and replace
500.00 300.00 &0

with
120.00 0 5 3.055555582046509

so you end up with
39000.98 49997.57 120.00 0 5 3.055555582046509



You can do this as well when you want ships to get closer to land in your SRD route when the game wont let you place ship waypoints too close to shore or up a river.

You can use aircraft waypoints and then doctor them as described as above
so you can make ships run up rivers or wherever you want.

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- spud - 06.03.2008

Can't we make a new train car, but give it the mesh of, a supply pile or something?

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- RAF_Magpie - 06.03.2008

S! Quick question here; how are you guys making the airfields from scratch?

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- FA_Cheech - 06.03.2008

RAF_Magpie Wrote:S! Quick question here; how are you guys making the airfields from scratch?

Above is a screen shot of the method we are using to construct 90 percent of the airfields on The Slot. The templates of the airfields are custom textures that we use as underlays. The templates are usually of two varieties, wartime surveys like this:


or, if no survey is available, we use scaled overhead aerial reconnaissance photos taken during U.S. bombing raids, like this:


We then use aerial photos like this, to make sure we get it right:


The final result, hopefully, looks like this:


If there are no surveys and no aerial photos available (Tenekau, and Kieta), that are suitable for scaling (too much perspective, etc.), we then go to Google Earth, find the remnants of the airfield, and do the best we can (Tenekau, and Kieta).

We also spend countless hours looking at research material to make sure the airfield is portrayed correctly, for the period we are modeling. Good example is Lunga Point; the appearance of Henderson changes markedly during the course of the Solomon's Campaign.

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- Checkyersix - 06.03.2008

Not sure if this has been cleared up yet, but there seems to be some misunderstanding of DCG in this thread. You don't need ROADS for a DCG location, just waypoints. A route for a vehicle in DCG is just a series of waypoints for it to travel over. It's even possible to build them crossing rivers, going through jungles, etc. If the map is missing actual roads, it doesn't matter to DCG, the tanks will just go from waypoint to waypoint. I've even made campaigns where tanks "swim" onto a beach. It's also possible to make a route network with single point locations, like unconnected airfields in a jungle.

A tip for designers - if you run into terrain tanks can't handle, plot waypoints using aircraft instead. FMB might not allow tanks to cross mountains or rivers, but the game doesn't actually know the difference.

Sorry if this has already been stated, but it seemed to be a sticking point.

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- Widowmaker - 07.03.2008

A follow up to the DCG end campaign trigger.

I checked with paul and you can use any static item for a end trigger
as well as the sunk trigger for ships

IE:
[AAPacMidway]
Campaign=PacificIslands_Campaign
Sunk=CV 100%
Victor=Red

Where sunk = the actual static item name for sinking an individual vessel, or the CV 100% for all



[AAPacTokyo45]
Campaign=PacificIslands_Campaign
Destroy=Wagon8 90%
Victor=Red


Where Wagon8 can be any static object. Just get the name from the mis file
then as soon as the set % you have selected gets destroyed, the campaign will end.

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