The end of snipper bomber's gunners ? - Printable Version
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The end of snipper bomber's gunners ? - uf_josse - 03.12.2007
Possible to do... possibility to limit gunners to rookie or average skill, altough bomber himself is in veteran or ace....
But, just a question and opinion needed....
Is it a good idea to modify this kind or feature ?
- Brophmeister - 03.12.2007
Whilst theoretically a good idea, not everyone is going to download and use it. So on any given server you could have some guys with sniper gunners and others with real human being gunners, so it would be unfair to those who use it. I'm not sure if theres a way for a server to automatically override peoples settings so everyone has the same gunner skill?
Personally I don't mind the sniper gunners. Fritz in the back seat of my Bf110 has saved my ass on more than a few occasions!
- triggerhappyfin - 03.12.2007
They are not snipers if you dont serve your ass on a silverplate to them. It was known to all combat pilots where not to place them selves for gunners to shoot at. Right behind a bomber is suicidal and so it should remain.
My advice is to learn the blind spots for the gunners and use it for your benefit. :wink:
- uf_josse - 03.12.2007
Humm, not so sure...it is safer from front but. a great quantity of guncams shows attacks from behind and no snipe at 1200 m as in the game...... Gunners are clearly overmodelded in the game......
In real life it was formations and numbers of gunner that was the most dangerous , much more like gunner himself skill...
- lowfighter - 03.12.2007
Josse, what I would like to see: if the bomber is set to rookie, make them shoot more. You probably noticed if you pass thorugh a formation of rookie bombers, you're pretty much safe, but I think not because they are less accurate but because they simply shoot very rarely and with shorter bursts than the average or higher. So I'd like to have the rookie shoot more and with less accuracy. Not sure that's easy to change. But it would be pretty much immersive I think when dealing with large bomber formations...
- uf_josse - 03.12.2007
don't know if it is possible this way.... (or more simple, if i am able to do that...... my programming skill is very, very low....)
- fly_zo - 03.12.2007
please ... if you managed to do that .... you'll be my personal hero from now on
Z
- High Plains Drifter - 03.12.2007
I really hate to be snipped!
- Jaws2002 - 03.12.2007
I find the AI gunners very easy to avoid when they are set on Average or Rookie. They are predictable. Once you learned how they react and track targets is pretty safe to fly trough formations almost unharmed.
On the other hand i find some human gunners online pure murder. :lol:
You can test it with the new bombers online. I sure can shoot better then my average ai gunners. I with something like the B24, B17, B-29 i will most likely hit you every pass. Not necesarry do enough damage but hit you none the less.
You should go online with some friends and do some testing. You'll be surprised how much better humans shoot then the average/rookie AI.
Ai will hit you good if you fly on a predictable flight path. Humans are way better in anticipating your next move.
- whiskey111 - 03.12.2007
What about AA artillery ? In prevoius version of IL-2 it was OK. Now AA is like sniper (exactly like bomber's gunner). But this is only my opinion of course
- Jaws2002 - 03.12.2007
whiskey111 Wrote:What about AA artillery ? In prevoius version of IL-2 it was OK. Now AA is like sniper (exactly like bomber's gunner). But this is only my opinion of course
Same problem here. The flack reacts to your flying.
"Never ever fly in a straight line for too long while in combat area".
- zaelu - 03.12.2007
My opinion is that the whole AI gunners rutine needs to be reworked... maybe in BoB we will se it happening.
Although placing yourself in the six of a bomber is often suicidal, is not certain. I have seen some movies when luftwaffe pilots were quite in dead six and shooting without being shot at, which is quite explicable if you put real humans in those planes... sometimes you just dont see that small attacking plane. The reaction time is another issue... the AI gunners are fireing perfect deflection salvos in no time at all. You can check with a jet trying just to swing through the bombers, don't try to destroy them... just pass through and you will see.
Another thing... when a gunner is in a damaged B17 under fire by 4 20mm cannons... it's fair to assume he will hit squat. Not in this game... you will get your head blown away quite fast. The shaking of the plane in that situation would be insane... no snipeing platform there.
I agree that if we have some arcade gameplay this could be fun and interesting, I agree that fighters should learn to attack but... please... this is not a good escuse for having simple AimBots as gunners. It feels "gamelike..."
Sorry for my rant
but, I would love to see those gunners not being aces at all... as they were...
- LAL_RONE - 03.12.2007
OLEG said why gunner and Flak are so deadly ... He explained that he modelised one type of aiming gun. When a gunner adjust your plane, he does it like a pilot in this plane.
The aiming system is the same for aircraft and fixed gun (like AAA or gunner).
It should be different but OLEG didn't modelised aircraft's vibrations and movement, firing's tremors ... That is the reason why gunner and AAA are so active !!!
If you affect aiming's gunner system, you affect aiming's aircraft too ...
Sorry for my poor english ... technic language is heavy to use !!!
- ROSOBORONEXPORTCORP - 03.12.2007
There is some AI data available (but I haven't looked into it in depth).
I don't understand some of the posts here. Novice AI gunners shoot much more than Ace AI.
If I were to make changes they would be:
- Slightly increase the quality of novice AI marksmanship
- Increase the duration (or frequency) of bursts used by higher level AI
I'm not sure that making any changes is a good idea though.
- Faucon - 03.12.2007
triggerhappyfin Wrote:They are not snipers if you dont serve your ass on a silverplate to them. It was known to all combat pilots where not to place them selves for gunners to shoot at. Right behind a bomber is suicidal and so it should remain.
My advice is to learn the blind spots for the gunners and use it for your benefit. :wink:
I have many stories that prove how AI gunners (AI in general) can make "un-human" things.
Like a head on at 800km/h with 262 => PK
Flying over and behind a bomber (~800m) in a Focke wulf => All controls out and PK with a little shot.
And many many time, in a Bf109, diving at 700km/h behind a bomber formation, shooting